Poll: Canadian Grand Prix 2019, Montréal - Race 7/21

Rate the 2019 Canadian Grand Prix out of ten

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Ted as usual doesn't have a clue what he's talking about and also being disrespectful as hell (not sure if in that video of if just general after the race stuff) deciding for us what Lauda would have said.

Autosport have a round up detailing the stewards decision, it's pretty clear cut. THe problem is they labelled the penalty as unsafe coming back on the track, what he actually got the penalty for was purposefully both pushing Hamilton off track and squeezing him towards a wall.

Vettel was clearly under control after the initial twitch, he clearly accelerated and turned left and maintained control, then according to the stewards from onboards, from cctv and other angles it's clear he checks his mirrors, sees Hamilton, straightens up the wheel (he's under completely control and has been for some time at this point) and lets his car stop turning left and maintaining or increasing the gap to the wall (and he has zero right to the racing line having gotten off track) and instead pushes towards the wall when there is a car now alongside him.

For all Vettel's absolutely horse **** complaining and excuse making, he's seen Hamilton and tried to put him into the wall. Regardless of why he was slow and losing it a bit on re-entry onto the track, he's been done because he's tried to put another driver in the wall. After that he's acted the victim and even got lots of fans and pundits angry at the FIA for applying a penalty because he tried to put another driver in the wall. I think Vettel had a little time to think, realised what he did and decided having another race taken away for a mistake under pressure was not something he wanted this race to be.... so he decided to change the narrative and he did so absolutely excellently.

How anyone is remotely defending him or saying the rule needs to change. in the 50s, the 70s, the 90s or today, any golden era, squeezing another guy into the wall intentionally is never 'okay' and it's never bad to be punished. Regardless of the championship, or your favourite driver, or if you don't want someone to win again, that penalty was LENIENT as hell and 100% deserved. The only slight issue is the've classified everything as one incident and called it unsafe re-entry to the track to save Vettel/Ferrari some face by only taking one position away. If they said ignore that, it's the end bit, he's tried to put someone into the wall and is getting a drive through penalty and he doesn't even get a podium... well that is imo what he should have gotten.


To me it was plain as day, but the article makes it black and white for me.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/143996/vettel-steering-inputs-key-to-fia-penalty-decision

Without all the extra information I thought it was plain as day what happened, with even more information it's even more obvious. Defending him for such a move, a move that everyone has always deemed awful driving and fully worthy of punishment, and even attacking the FIA and saying drivers can't race any more... it's insane.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Ted as usual doesn't have a clue what he's talking about and also being disrespectful as hell (not sure if in that video of if just general after the race stuff) deciding for us what Lauda would have said.

Autosport have a round up detailing the stewards decision, it's pretty clear cut. THe problem is they labelled the penalty as unsafe coming back on the track, what he actually got the penalty for was purposefully both pushing Hamilton off track and squeezing him towards a wall.

Vettel was clearly under control after the initial twitch, he clearly accelerated and turned left and maintained control, then according to the stewards from onboards, from cctv and other angles it's clear he checks his mirrors, sees Hamilton, straightens up the wheel (he's under completely control and has been for some time at this point) and lets his car stop turning left and maintaining or increasing the gap to the wall (and he has zero right to the racing line having gotten off track) and instead pushes towards the wall when there is a car now alongside him.

For all Vettel's absolutely horse **** complaining and excuse making, he's seen Hamilton and tried to put him into the wall. Regardless of why he was slow and losing it a bit on re-entry onto the track, he's been done because he's tried to put another driver in the wall. After that he's acted the victim and even got lots of fans and pundits angry at the FIA for applying a penalty because he tried to put another driver in the wall. I think Vettel had a little time to think, realised what he did and decided having another race taken away for a mistake under pressure was not something he wanted this race to be.... so he decided to change the narrative and he did so absolutely excellently.

How anyone is remotely defending him or saying the rule needs to change. in the 50s, the 70s, the 90s or today, any golden era, squeezing another guy into the wall intentionally is never 'okay' and it's never bad to be punished. Regardless of the championship, or your favourite driver, or if you don't want someone to win again, that penalty was LENIENT as hell and 100% deserved. The only slight issue is the've classified everything as one incident and called it unsafe re-entry to the track to save Vettel/Ferrari some face by only taking one position away. If they said ignore that, it's the end bit, he's tried to put someone into the wall and is getting a drive through penalty and he doesn't even get a podium... well that is imo what he should have gotten.


To me it was plain as day, but the article makes it black and white for me.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/143996/vettel-steering-inputs-key-to-fia-penalty-decision

Without all the extra information I thought it was plain as day what happened, with even more information it's even more obvious. Defending him for such a move, a move that everyone has always deemed awful driving and fully worthy of punishment, and even attacking the FIA and saying drivers can't race any more... it's insane.
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But the penalty was for returning to the track in an unsafe manner AND squeezing Hamilton.

Saying that Vettel looked in his mirrors and tried to put him into the wall is ********. I'm sorry, you could say he tried to block him but you can't say he tried to put him in the wall.

There are plenty of videos of other cars doing what you claim Vettel did (making a mistake and then defending hard after recovering), Hamilton vs Ricciardo from Monaco 2016 for example. Does it make it right? No, but it shows how inconsistent the FIA are.
 
timmeh said:
But the penalty was for returning to the track in an unsafe manner AND squeezing Hamilton.

Saying that Vettel looked in his mirrors and tried to put him into the wall is ********. I'm sorry, you could say he tried to block him but you can't say he tried to put him in the wall.

There are plenty of videos of other cars doing what you claim Vettel did (making a mistake and then defending hard after recovering), Hamilton vs Ricciardo from Monaco 2016 for example. Does it make it right? No, but it shows how inconsistent the FIA are.
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There is a car alongside you, and a wall alongside him and you turn into him, that is trying to put a car into the wall no matter how you try and excuse it.


Also no, there are not plenty of examples. Hamilton did NOT defend hard against Ricciardo, he defended fairly, Monaco 2016 there are plainly and obvious videos where he leaves WELL over a cars width for Ricciardo regardless of what Ricciardo claims.

You can also plainly see from videos of this incident that Hamilton has 2-3 inches to the wall, a couple of inches to Vettel, stamps on the brakes and Vettel moves further over. If he stayed where he was, where the rules explicitly state he had every right to be, he hits the wall.

The FIA are not inconsistent, Hamilton didn't do anything remotely close to penalty worthy in Monaco just because you claim it as an example of the same thing. I think I posted a link to the video here already but I'll post it again.

https://streamable.com/snhp

18-19 second mark, if you can't see that Ricciardo had plenty of space and that Hamilton was going straight, not closing the gap at all when Ricciardo just randomly backs off and almost loses it then there isn't much point discussing it further. It's literally plain as day, he didn't just have a cars width, there was a cars width and a large gap between Ricciardo and the wall and Ricciardo and Hamilton.#

If that is 'defending hard'.... lol.

EDIT:- blocking is making an erratic move, or a second move getting across in front of someone. When someone is alongside and you turn into them, that isn't blocking, if you do that such that you shove someone off the track you're breaking the rules and that isn't blocking, that is pushing someone off the road. If the road happens to have a wall by it and you choose to shove someone into it, that is putting someone in the wall, not in any way blocking.

Hamilton was alongside, that's a simple fact, and he had to stamp on the brakes to avoid being put in the wall. Calling that blocking is absurd. Blocking would be if he closed up to the wall before Hamilton got alongside, and that would be even more dangerous because he was at a way lower speed than normal on that piece of track, but I'd still call that a dangerous block, but pushing someone alongside you towards a wall is not a block.
 
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So you think that in the split second that it took for Vettel to recover he looked in his mirrors, saw that Hamilton was alongside him and decided that he would risk ending his own race and force an opponent into the wall? Sure ok.

You talk like these guys have all the time in the world to make these decisions, he was moving across the track to block Hamilton, he didn't swerve when he saw Hamilton alongside him did he? He was moving across the track.

It's absurd to think that someone would willingly try to push an opponent into the wall.

As for Ricciardo randomly backing off, he braked because he probably thought he was about to be put in the wall... Randomly backed off... lol
 
timmeh said:
So you think that in the split second that it took for Vettel to recover he looked in his mirrors, saw that Hamilton was alongside him and decided that he would risk ending his own race and force an opponent into the wall? Sure ok.

You talk like these guys have all the time in the world to make these decisions, he was moving across the track to block Hamilton, he didn't swerve when he saw Hamilton alongside him did he? He was moving across the track.

It's absurd to think that someone would willingly try to push an opponent into the wall.

As for Ricciardo randomly backing off, he braked because he probably thought he was about to be put in the wall... Randomly backed off... lol
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He was turning left, significantly, Hamilton comes alongside, Vettel straightens up the steering wheel which closes the gap. Also yeah, read the article, there is telemetry, onboards, different cameras and cctv, he changed his course when he looked in the mirrors and it doesn't matter if it's intentional or not. When there is a car alongside you and you drive them towards the wall... the description for that is driving someone into the wall, full stop. It's not blocking, it's putting someone in the freaking wall intentional or not, though everything in the article implies all the data suggests it was an intentional change of direction after looking in the mirror, it also wasn't over a split second, but decisions based on a split second aren't immune to being punished.

Every bad decision in F1 is something actually done in a split second, that doesn't mean those decisions aren't incorrect.

As for Ricciardo randomly backing off, he did. Hamilton backed out as the space he had was closing. Ricciardo backed out while Hamilton had left way more than one cars width and was driving straight, the gap wasn't closing at all. So no he had no reason to back out and it's not comparable also again, though you didn't bother to actually mention it when you compared the incidents, as stated and as plainly available in that video, Ricciardo had plenty of space, Hamilton had no space, had already been pushed over the white line and Vettel was continuing to close the gap.
 
Even with clear evidence and facts that backs the penalty, people here still refuse to believe it?

Are they calling FIA and the cctv and telemetrics data etc fake information? Based on what?

Where is your counter argument to say FIA and its data is wrong? Where is your data that backs up the fact that he never had control and re-entered the track safely? i mean wow!!! i do wonder sometimes here on some people.

Some here including my real life friends are too stubborn and blind to see the truth. its sad really
 
jonneymendoza said:
Even with clear evidence and facts that backs the penalty, people here still refuse to believe it?

Are they calling FIA and the cctv and telemetrics data etc fake information? Based on what?

Where is your counter argument to say FIA and its data is wrong? Where is your data that backs up the fact that he never had control and re-entered the track safely? i mean wow!!! i do wonder sometimes here on some people.

Some here including my real life friends are too stubborn and blind to see the truth. its sad really
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You must realise by now that the armchair experts, many of whom seem to have jumped on the bandwagon, know better than the FIA, the telemetry and the camera footage.
 
CaptainRAVE said:
You must realise by now that the armchair experts, many of whom seem to have jumped on the bandwagon, know better than the FIA, the telemetry and the camera footage.
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It really iircs me because most of my real life friends are like this. They don't admit they are wrong and continue saying "I don't care, it's racing" and yet one of the first rules in racing is your not allowed to cut a corner..
 
jonneymendoza said:
It really iircs me because most of my real life friends are like this. They don't admit they are wrong and continue saying "I don't care, it's racing" and yet one of the first rules in racing is your not allowed to cut a corner..
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It's because we're in the days of outrage stoked by social media, and opinions trumping facts. As Rosberg says, either Vettel was out of control and by definition rejoining the track in an unsafe manner (intentional or not), or he was in control and deliberately tried to push Hamilton off the track into the wall. It's got to be one or the other, he can't have his cake and eat it too.

It's the same old pattern from Vettel. Make a mistake under pressure, then rail at how it's everyone else's fault.
 
Steampunk said:
It's because we're in the days of outrage stoked by social media, and opinions trumping facts. As Rosberg says, either Vettel was out of control and by definition rejoining the track in an unsafe manner (intentional or not), or he was in control and deliberately tried to push Hamilton off the track into the wall. It's got to be one or the other, he can't have his cake and eat it too.
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It's not just that people seem to react too emotionally, the rules are clear and in writing but people 'feel' aggrieved because they were robbed of some glorious ending to the race that they had only imagined and like children who are told by parents that they can't have the £100 toy in the shop, they start crying and having a temper tantrum (much like Vettel) because they didn't get their way.
 
I still don't understand why Vettel reacted the way he did.

It's understandable if he did one of the things he did (like storm off to the motor home) but it went from an emotional reaction to a continued effort and a statement.
 
EVH said:
It's understandable if he did one of the things he did (like storm off to the motor home) but it went from an emotional reaction to a continued effort and a statement.
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He did all that pantomime and 'they stole the win' from us to deflect from the fact that yet again he cracked under pressure. And it's worked. The main headline is how the FIA ruined the race, not how Vettel blew it.
 
EVH said:
I still don't understand why Vettel reacted the way he did.

It's understandable if he did one of the things he did (like storm off to the motor home) but it went from an emotional reaction to a continued effort and a statement.
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Spunkey said:
He did all that pantomime and 'they stole the win' from us to deflect from the fact that yet again he cracked under pressure. And it's worked. The main headline is how the FIA ruined the race, not how Vettel blew it.
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The big Ferrari crowd there didn't help either as they supported his actions and having been buoyed by the fans he continued to act like a prat. He's always been like this, it is why he will never win another championship unless he has an untouchable car. He should have retired after his 4th championship. All he has done since is confirm what a small minority of us thought at the time.
 
Spunkey said:
He did all that pantomime and 'they stole the win' from us to deflect from the fact that yet again he cracked under pressure. And it's worked. The main headline is how the FIA ruined the race, not how Vettel blew it.
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Very true. Regardless of whether the penalty was or wasn't correct, it all came about from yet another Vettel error.
 
mmj_uk said:
It's not just that people seem to react too emotionally, the rules are clear and in writing but people 'feel' aggrieved because they were robbed of some glorious ending to the race that they had only imagined and like children who are told by parents that they can't have the £100 toy in the shop, they start crying and having a temper tantrum (much like Vettel) because they didn't get their way.
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This is an exact repeat of his performance post-Baku when he deliberately drove into Hamilton. He was just incapable (or utterly) unwilling to admit that it even happened.
 
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