Capital One Cup - Second Round ** Spoilers ** [26/27 August 2014]

[Robbo]

Sucks that you can comfortably say that as you know manu have no chance if struggling long term due to the money

Well there may well be problems, but assuming the money isn't fluffed away we should be able to construct a fairly high quality squad over the next couple of seasons. Financially we're very secure for the next decade or so, and we won't struggle to fill the stadium either.

 

[shipinabottle]

Well there may well be problems, but assuming the money isn't fluffed away we should be able to construct a fairly high quality squad over the next couple of seasons. Financially we're very secure for the next decade or so, and we won't struggle to fill the stadium either.

Shut up, haven't you heard, we can't compete with the oil barrens, we're heading into mediocrity for 30 years

 

[Tummy]

The fact that I don't play professional football for a living and because of that I can't understand football is the reason. LADS.

The one sided moderation and spending more time in suspension was the other factor! I need to rebuild my PC and the lack of MM means I have to spend more money :/

Just an excuse really innit. Fair weather fan and all that.

Must not comment on moderation . My PC is bright orange .

 

[BigChief]

Away from the big teams and all the point and laugh stuff that is going on in here (as much as I would like to being a City fan).

Who are people's predictions for deep cup runs from the Championship or below? My pick would be Sheff Weds. Solid start to the season and a very good result against Burnley last night.

 

[inogen]

Well there may well be problems, but assuming the money isn't fluffed away we should be able to construct a fairly high quality squad over the next couple of seasons. Financially we're very secure for the next decade or so, and we won't struggle to fill the stadium either.

Could have been said about Liverpool in 1991.

 

[Robbo]

Could have been said about Liverpool in 1991.

Maybe, but to think we're definitely going to follow the exact same route is wishful thinking. It's not statistically likely. Times change, too.

Man City and Chelsea were always inevitably going to come good because they had money, we've got potentially a better starting base than they had, if you look at it like that. The squad just needs organisation, which has now started.

 

[Tummy]

Away from the big teams and all the point and laugh stuff that is going on in here (as much as I would like to being a City fan).

Who are people's predictions for deep cup runs from the Championship or below? My pick would be Sheff Weds. Solid start to the season and a very good result against Burnley last night.

Someone else actually mentioning my beloved Sheffield Wednesday!

I would love to agree, but I think if we come up against a top half Premiership side we will come unstuck, if we can avoid those teams I think we will do ~ok.

We have started well, playing some tidy football and players are motivated. Stuart Grey is doing really well with us, he's seems like a nice guy too.

The Nottingham County match was really a good game, but the opposition where terrible, disorganised and unmotivated.

 

[inogen]

Maybe, but to think we're definitely going to follow the exact same route is wishful thinking. It's not statistically likely. Times change, too.

Man City and Chelsea were always inevitably going to come good because they had money, we've got potentially a better starting base than they had, if you look at it like that. The squad just needs organisation, which has now started.

I'm not so sure it's so simple.

10 years ago when Ambramovic came in, Chelsea spent relatively, an awful lot of money. They bought 5 or so top bracket players each summer and sometimes more in the winter. Same when Man City started to do the same. Some came in and did well, some didn't and were moved on. The problem now is that these players are no longer £15m and want £100,000pw. They want £200k+ and cost £40-£60m, with that only set to increase.

Considering how many of these players Man U need in order to go down the route of just buying or "re-organising" the squad, I just don't see how that's feasible from a business or even a FFP POV.

What should be being done is Man U buying 10-15 moderate, potentially good players, shifting 80-90% of the squad on and building what's left into a team, then adding star players to it. That could work. It would also take 2-3 years, if successful, to begin to bear fruit. That's what clubs without managers that have been there for 20 odd years do. If that doesn't work, they get the sack and the next fella has a go. That's what you do when you've not got unlimited money.

At the moment, the transfer strategy seems completely opportunistic with no clear vision of team progression. The 3 at the back thing is a complete red herring. It'll all just become a circular pattern of thinking the addition of 1 or 2 great players each season will fix the team and therefore the club, when it wont. It's exactly what Liverpool did towards the end of the 80s, it rots the club and the team from the inside. The idea that improving your own team, relative to your yourselves, works when you're the best team, means FA when you're not.

On the plus side (from your owners POV) it keeps attendances high, TV exposure high and there are plenty of cup competitions to win and gloss over the mismanagement. Or not as the case may be

Anyway. It doesn't really matter what I think

 

[Wayn0r]

You would have thought the Liverpool fan with a hard on for Man Utd would have known that.

<3 gimp x

 

[Robbo]

I'm not so sure it's so simple.

10 years ago when Ambramovic came in, Chelsea spent relatively, an awful lot of money. They bought 5 or so top bracket players each summer and sometimes more in the winter. Same when Man City started to do the same. Some came in and did well, some didn't and were moved on. The problem now is that these players are no longer £15m and want £100,000pw. They want £200k+ and cost £40-£60m, with that only set to increase.

Considering how many of these players Man U need in order to go down the route of just buying or "re-organising" the squad, I just don't see how that's feasible from a business or even a FFP POV.

What should be being done is Man U buying 10-15 moderate, potentially good players, shifting 80-90% of the squad on and building what's left into a team, then adding star players to it. That could work. It would also take 2-3 years, if successful, to begin to bear fruit. That's what clubs without managers that have been there for 20 odd years do. If they don't work, they get the sack and the next fella does the same. That's what you do when you've not got unlimited money.

At the moment, the transfer strategy seems completely opportunistic with no clear vision of team progression. The 3 at the back thing is a complete red herring. It'll all just become a circular pattern of thinking the addition of 1 or 2 great players each season will fix the team and therefore the club, when it wont. It's exactly what Liverpool did towards the end of the 80s, it rots the club and the team from the inside.

On the plus side (from your owners POV) it keeps attendances high, TV exposure high and there are plenty of cup competitions to win and gloss over the mismanagement.

Anyway. It doesn't really matter what I think

I think our biggest problem is shifting the likes of Anderson/Nani/etc, due to the wages.

We need to do more than buy a couple of star names though. We need to ship out the bad players and get in good, if not amazing players. I'm not sure why this is such a struggle, but we'll see how the transfer window ends... I'm hopeful that a new transfer strategy has already been drawn up, and over the next couple of transfer windows we can make some good buys and shift some of the deadwood.

Having said all that, aside from the fact he was overpriced, Di Maria is a good buy. He's relatively young, proven at all levels and provides pace, something we have none of - you need pace (and it helps when there's an end product too, unlike Welbeck ).

There certainly isn't any rocket science involved.

 

[FishFluff]

Shut up, haven't you heard, we can't compete with the oil barrens, we're heading into mediocrity for 30 years

It's good that you've already come to terms with this.

 

[lemonkettaz]

I honestly don't think Man Utd have sorted themselves out since a certain Ronaldo left.

Regardless what they won since then they have been on a downward slope and other teams have been on the up.

 

[Steedie]

It's funny how Liverpool have one good season then feel they can sit and talk about us being on the decline as if they are suddenly a team challenging for the title year in year out

I'm pretty confident that we'll turn this around sooner rather than later, it's certainly not a 20 year spell fighting for Europa league like Liverpool had, but I do agree we probably won't win the league for a few years or even come close. But we'll be qualifying for the Champions league this season or next

 

[inogen]

It's funny how Liverpool have one good season then feel they can sit and talk about us being on the decline as if they are suddenly a team challenging for the title year in year out

I feel I can cos I'm 40 years old. I saw us where you where, I think I see the signs, it certainly entitles me to draw comparisons.

Also at least, when we have to, we do fight for the Europa. It's a great cup to win. It's also a good opportunity to blend new and youth players in and give them experience. Don't diss it, you'd be far better off in it this season that not. Especially after last night's result.

But hey, better off not bothering eh? Just stick your head firmly in the sand and hope it all goes away... A new team will just appear overnight... Oh... that balmy night Barcelona, seems like yesterday...

 

[Steedie]

I'm certainly not sticking my head in the sand, and neither do I think a lot of people on here are.

We lost the greatest manager in football, of course that's going to rock the boat a bit. I think anyone that expected us to continue as normal was deluded. Moyes or not we would have struggled last year, but Moyes made things worse as he was way out of his depth. This year with a good manager, we'll be up there battling for the top four I'd expect.

We're not going to repeat Liverpools two decades of woe (which will probably resume now you've lost Suarez), as much as you'd love to think that and see it happen, it just won't. With the money in football that there is now, and the money that Manchester United have at their disposal, that just won't happen. Throwing money at the problem isn't the best way of fixing things sure, but it will fix it.

 

[inogen]

I'm certainly not sticking my head in the sand, and neither do I think a lot of people on here are.

We lost the greatest manager in football, of course that's going to rock the boat a bit. I think anyone that expected us to continue as normal was deluded. Moyes or not we would have struggled last year, but Moyes made things worse as he was way out of his depth. This year with a good manager, we'll be up there battling for the top four I'd expect.

We're not going to repeat Liverpools two decades of woe (which will probably resume now you've lost Suarez), as much as you'd love to think that and see it happen, it just won't. With the money in football that there is now, and the money that Manchester United have at their disposal, that just won't happen. Throwing money at the problem isn't the best way of fixing things sure, but it will fix it.

Hmmm... change in management, rich club, just throw money at it... ALARM BELLS

And no, it won't "fix it". Money is not a fix all and even if it was, don't have enough money to "fix it" cos there are 2 other teams in the league who will outspend you if needs be. The reason you've managed to be competitive with Chelsea is that it wasn't just about money. You're no longer competitive with Man City and don't have their money either.

 

[Steedie]

Well let's agree to disagree

I think money will fix it, when you can afford to be bent over for players with the quality like Di Maria and potentially Vidal, then who knows who else we'll be buying in January or next Summer. As I said, it's not the best way, but it's a way none the less

 

[BigChief]

Hmmm... change in management, rich club, just throw money at it... ALARM BELLS

And no, it won't "fix it". Money is not a fix all and even if it was, don't have enough money to "fix it" cos there are 2 other teams in the league who will outspend you if needs be. The reason you've managed to be competitive with Chelsea is that it wasn't just about money. You're no longer competitive with Man City and don't have their money either.

Finally starts talking some sense

 

[inogen]

Well let's agree to disagree

I think money will fix it, when you can afford to be bent over for players with the quality like Di Maria and potentially Vidal, then who knows who else we'll be buying in January or next Summer. As I said, it's not the best way, but it's a way none the less

Yep. Who knows, but one things for sure, no matter who you buy, at least half of them will be crocks or won't fit in. That's the same no matter how much players cost.

That's an awful lot of money you're thinking your owners will spend.

 

[Purdy]

It's funny how Liverpool have one good season then feel they can sit and talk about us being on the decline as if they are suddenly a team challenging for the title year in year out

I'm pretty confident that we'll turn this around sooner rather than later, it's certainly not a 20 year spell fighting for Europa league like Liverpool had, but I do agree we probably won't win the league for a few years or even come close. But we'll be qualifying for the Champions league this season or next

You're pretty much describing all football fans since ever, enjoy the highs and rub it in on others when they're down, you don't wait for years to gloat.


We spent 20 years fighting for Europa league? Jesus christ I knew Istanbul was special but didn't realise we won a European Cup fighting for the Europa league for 20 years.