Car purchase gone wrong….

Another update,

The broker who set the whole thing up called earlier, apparently they've laid out the situation to the dealer and the dealer has agreed to accept it back.

So hopefully, there should be a truck turning up soon to take it away :)
Goes without saying I am sure, but shamelessly video record every single moment of that pick up with the driver witnessing you do it.
 
Years ago, a friend of mine had a high powered Nissan Skyline GTR and the engine blew up, he got it rebuilt by a garage who made a massive pig's ear of it, the turbo blew up the day after he collected it and the engine ate the turbine blades and had to be rebuilt again.

He named the garage on one of the public forums, and the whole thing turned into carnage with the garage threatening legal action, people threatening to beat people up - basically it was cancer..

So there's no way I'll ever be naming the garage in this case, on a public forum, no way whatsoever.

:)
 
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I won’t be naming anybody at any point.

That's a shame, someone or someone's family member could end up with a lemon/dangerous vehicle

Alternatively just let people know the reg :)

Wouldn't be surprised if some of the Detectives on here find some pics of it absolutely mangled and a non registered repair beign carried out haha
 
Ok so an update to wrap this up, if anyone cares :)

It got collected last Friday and the dealership got it back on Tuesday.

As I expected the dealer sent me an arsey message this morning: "There's nothing wrong with it, we pushed the hose back on" but they've accepted it back anyway, the finance is being unwound as we speak and I had an official letter from the finance company basically closing the whole thing off.

So that's basically it.

I wrote a guide of all of the stuff I learnt when going through this, it's based on my own experience and what I learnt.

Hopefully somebody at some point might find it useful:

Talking to the dealership:

Be prepared to be mugged off from the get-go. When I first reported the issue to the finance company and dealership, the dealer tried to tell me, (exact words) “Because you signed paperwork and drove it home, you have no right to change your mind and return it” yet five minutes later when talking to the finance company, they’re telling me the dealer is completely in the wrong in saying that.

I simply told them directly, that I had no confidence in the vehicle due to the fact it has failed significantly within the first week, and I was exercising a section 20 right to reject, under the consumer rights act.

They later claimed they weren't liable, because I managed to drive the vehicle home and therefore the vehicle must have been fit for purpose - because I made it home.

Main dealers vs small independent traders are quite different beasts, a main dealer is far more likely to just accept a rejection and refund and not take it personally. A small independent trader is far more likely to fight tooth and claw to not accept the vehicle back, ergo: they’ll likely pull every trick in the book, you need to anticipate this.

Stand your ground and do what’s best for you, don’t feel guilty about returning something which has broken, and don’t cave in just because the dealer is angry or doesn’t want to cooperate. Remember - this is a big purchase, and if it breaks soon after you’ve just taken ownership of it - that’s a significant amount of worry.

I constantly told myself; “If the tables were turned and the dealer had bought something which broke in under a week, you can guarantee he’d be exercising every right in the book, to get rid of it

Note: Statutory rights cannot be signed away, the consumer rights act supersedes anything you may sign in a contract or paperwork with a dealer, as those rights are guaranteed by law.*

Note2: With regard to the 30 days short term right to reject, the clock stops from the day you report the fault to the finance company or dealer. So if the fault occurs on day 28 and you tell them on day 29, you're fine. However if you tell them on day 35 - you might run into issues, so make sure you tell them as soon as is humanly possible.

The fault itself:

Do not try to fix anything, or have anybody try to fix it, interfering with it in any way may affect your rights.
Do not clear any codes or delete anything with a scanner


The moment you say to the finance company, dealer or whoever “My m8 big-john is a proper good mechanic like, and he had a look and tried XYZ, and pulled out the ABC and tightened up this and that” you’re basically attacking your own case with a sledgehammer.

In my case the finance company sent an independent professional vehicle inspector to get a diagnosis. This guy couldn’t disassemble or touch it, he simply looked at the symptoms and gave an unbiased opinion to the finance company, but it’s his opinion which is one of the most important parts of the whole process, as that will guide the finance company with regard to making a decision.

Generally, the fault has to be “significant” in the sense that it directly affects the general operation of the car. There are debates over what constitutes “significant” however it wouldn’t be a flat tyre or a faulty electric-window motor.

The vehicle has to be “fit for purpose” “as described” and “of satisfactory quality”. Even if you buy a 14 year old X5 for £5k, ( ;) ) the same legislation protects the buyer, as if it was a brand new X5 bought for £80k. You won’t be in a situation where your rights don’t apply, “because you bought a knackered car and should have known better” the law is the law and the dealer is either in breach of contract, or they’re not.

If you bought this via cash or bank loan, directly from the dealer - you’ll still need to prove that the fault exists, in that case - you’ll need to pay for your own vehicle inspector to provide a report. This can get complicated because when you return the vehicle - the dealer can contradict that with his own inspector, if they decide not to refund - you’ll need to take legal advice from a solicitor and potentially go down the small claims route.

If you paid for some or all of the car via a credit card, speak to the credit card provider immediatley, as they have a standard process for dealing with this, and they hold all the power.

Note: If you attempt to, or actually fix the vehicle - you lose any right to reject unless it fails again within the 30 days since purchase. So it goes without saying: If it breaks and you want to reject it, don’t **** around with it, under any circumstances whatsoever.*

Note2: You’re always going to have an easier time if the inspector deems the fault to have been preexisting or developing at the point of purchase. But sometimes things just go bang due to the nature of these machines, in either case you should be fine - as under the CRA a vehicle has to be fit for purpose. But seek some professional legal advice if in doubt there as it is a bit of a grey area.*

Note3: Don't be intimidated by legal threats or letters, the situation is simple: If you bought a car from a motor trader and it broke in a week or two or whatever, they're liable to either fix it or refund all of your money, they essentially have no leg to stand on.

Note4: With regard to inspection and diagnosis, don't use a regular mechanic - use a professional vehicle inspector. These guys write officlal reports for dealers, finance companies and insurance companies, they'll inspect/scan the vehicle without altering it in any way. If this ever goes to a small claims court, using a professional inspector will always hold more weight than the opinion of a random garage.

Warranties?

Almost all used cars come with warranties, if you buy a new/nearly new car for £50k from a main-dealer or whatever, you’ll likely get looked after (for the most part) and you won’t be reading this.

However, with cheaper used cars a dealer will normally provide a 3-6 month warranty from the likes of the RAC or Autoguard or something.

Typically, these warranties only cover up to a certain amount (£1000-2000) and only on certain parts, for example the drivetrain or engine might be excluded.***

If the car breaks inside 30 days and you want to reject it, the dealer might expect you to just claim on the warranty as a means of excusing themselves from any liability.

You’re under no obligation to have the car fixed under warranty, if it’s broken and you want to reject it - the warranty is irrelevant.

Even if the car breaks catastrophically (auto gearbox failure) and you want to keep it and get it fixed, however the cost of the repair is £5k and the warranty covers up to £2k, the dealer can’t force you to use the warranty.

If the vehicle has broken inside 30 days with a significant fault, the dealer has no choice - you can either reject it as being not fit for purpose, or give them an option to fix it - the choice is up to the consumer, not the dealer.

If the above has occurred after 30 days but inside 6 months, it's still possible to reject or repair outside of the warranty, however it gets more difficult and you should absolutely get professional advice. It also becomes the dealer choice whether they repair or accept rejection, you normally have to give them one chance to repair first, before rejection is an option.

Note: The consumer rights act 2015, will supersede anything involving a warranty - so it's mostly meaningless.

Note2: That said - if the car does develop a fault which isn't massive but you want to keep the car. Such a warranty might be more practical and involve less pain than having to go through the original dealer, who will most likely not give two ***** about you or the car. So the warranty might be a good facility to use, if you like the car and it's not a huge expensive fault.

Returning the vehicle:

If (as in my case) the vehicle was purchased on finance, you’re at the mercy of the finance company. As the consumer - you’re not liable for the costs of transporting it back to the dealer. It will be either the dealer or the finance company who pays for it, and they’ll negotiate between each other as to who pays.

If you paid for it with cash and there’s no finance company, it’s the dealership who is liable for transporting it back.

TAKE PHOTOS/VIDEOS. Before it gets collected, or you return it, photograph ******* everything, I did several walkaround videos, and still pictures of the vehicle in good lighting. The interior, the odometer, the boot - engine-bay, everything. Also take photos of the mileage, and all of the paperwork, as they normally want some/all of that back.

Pro tip: When you do the videos/pictures, CLEAN THE CAR FIRST. When the transporter comes to collect the vehicle, it’s normally a specialist who deals in repossessions and faulty-vehicle rejections, he will take a large number of his own photographs.

If the vehicle is dirty, he’ll remark that it was dirty and so the vehicle couldn’t be properly checked for scratches and damage. This might leave you exposed, if the dealer suddenly cleans it and finds scratches or damage he thinks you might have caused and will complicate the whole thing. Expect the dealer to go through it with a fine-toothed-comb.

Finally, expect the dealer to immediatley fix it and say there's nothing wrong with it. Once the vehicle is out of your posession and back with the dealer, they can do whatever they like to it and claim whatever they like. Just make sure you have the inspection report from the official vehicle inspector, and get a solicitor involved if the dealer start to play games.

Right to reject vs 14 day cooldown

When you sign a finance agreement, you have the right to a “cooling off” period of 14 days from the day it was signed, this is a legal requirement on the finance companies.

Whilst this is true, it’s important to know that even if you change your mind and want to cancel - this might only apply to the finance itself, you’ll still need to pay for the car with your own money, you’re simply canceling the finance agreement - not the contract to actually buy the car.

In my case, the finance company got confused, and didn’t understand the difference between the 14 day cooling off period, and the consumer rights act section 20, right to reject. They provided me with incorrect information which caused a delay, confusion and they had to backtrack.

Make sure you know the legislation when you speak to them.

Maintaining finance payments

Always check the terms and conditions of your finance agreement, however you will almost certainly be required to make payments against your finance agreement until the agreement is unwound.

Once the agreement is unwound, you’ll be refunded all of the payments - but make sure you pay them until the finance company say you no longer need to.

You need the finance company to fight your corner, so don’t upset them.

Note: The agreement will be removed from your credit file as though it never existed in the first place.

Fees for usage/milage:

If you’re rejecting under the short term right to reject (30 days) then the dealership can’t claim any money for reasonable mileage incurred, if the rejection is successful you’ll receive 100% of your money back.

If you’re rejecting after 30 days, but within 6 months the dealer can charge you for mileage, but it has to be reasonable - definitely engage a solicitor if they ask for mental amounts like £1 a mile or something ridiculous.

In either case, if you return the car back to the dealer with actual damage (such as a dented body panel) and you can’t prove that damage was present at the point of purchase, you are potentially liable for costs there.*

Hire/courtesy cars

If your car can’t be driven and you need a hire-car, you’ll likely be responsible for fronting the cost of that and you likely won’t get it back. If you bought the car on finance (in my case) I got a free hire-car for 5 weeks, but only from the moment they ruled in my favour, up until that point I’d paid around £600 for my own hire car. It’s also at the discretion of the finance company, nobody is legally obliged to provide you with a hire car, it’s a gesture of goodwill if they do.

I did consider taking the dealer to court for the £600, but a solicitor told me I’d lose if they refunded the finance - because I’d technically be getting my money back, the success of getting the hire-car money back in that case was very low.

Pro tip: When this happens and you have no vehicle and you’re left in the lurch. If you’re going to pay for a hire car, chances are you’re going to need it for more than a few weeks, because the whole process takes ages.

The daily rate is way cheaper if you just go ahead and pay for weeks in advance, as opposed to if you do it in chunks of a few days and keep extending, I hired mine with enterprise and they refund if you return early anyway, doing it this way made the hire car cost way cheaper.**

Screeeech’s pro tips:

If it’s not in writing it didn’t happen.

Chase like hell - finance companies are slow, being persistent does work and will speed things up, don’t feel bad by being annoying.

Don’t feel guilty, judge yourself or take things personally - it’s a difficult situation to be in, do what you can to get an outcome that works for you, apologise to absolutely nobody for doing this.

Free legal advice is worth its weight in gold. There are a number of solicitors who specialise in motor disputes, almost all of them will talk to you for 10 mins or so on the phone, and answer basic questions for free. I cannot emphasise enough how important this was.

If you go for a full hour of legal advice, it’ll likely cost around £200 and you can ask as much as you like. If you do this - make sure you write down all your questions before you go on the call, I had about forty questions written down in google docs, get your money’s worth. £200 sounds like a lot of money, but these purchases often cost tens of thousands, so £200 to get definite answers is usually money well spent.

Don’t name any businesses or individuals on forums, the law of unintended consequences is a real thing, you don’t know who you might upset or if such a person/business might want retribution. This sort of thing can cause a lot of sleepless nights. If you're hell-bent on naming them publically and are out for blood, I'd definitley recommend legal advice there first, becuase these things have a habit of generating aggravation later on.

Do leave factual reviews, but don’t get emotional - simply outline the facts, don’t say anything libelous - remember the dealer who tried to mug you off at the start? don’t give them an excuse to come after you later.

Assume you’re right and everybody else is wrong: In my case, I’d read up on the consumer rights act, yet when I’d speak to the finance company or whoever - they’d be telling me incorrect stuff and I’d end up questioning myself. Then later it would turn out that I was right and they’d have to backtrack.

Listen to LBC’s legal/consumer shows with Daniel Barnett and Dean Dunham: I’ve been listening to these shows for years, and the head-start it gave me was immeasurable, these guys are totally worth tuning into.

* Always seek your own independant legal advice if unsure
** Always check your hire car paperwork and contract
*** Always check your warranty paperwork and smallprint.
 
I wrote a guide of all of the stuff I learnt when going through this, it's based on my own experience and what I learnt.

Hopefully somebody at some point might find it useful:
Shame someone else in here didn't know all this. I especially appreciated your third from last section.
 
Ok so an update to wrap this up, if anyone cares :)

* Always seek your own independant legal advice if unsure
** Always check your hire car paperwork and contract
*** Always check your warranty paperwork and smallprint.
Also find and read the actual legislation relavent to your situation, it's all available online.

Make the (or part of the) payment for the vehicle on credit card or use finance for the additional protections.
 
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Shame someone else in here didn't know all this. I especially appreciated your third from last section.

I think one of the biggest things I learnt in all of this, is that with finance - a 14 day cooling off period, is literally just for the finance agreement itself.

So if you change your mind - that only applies to the finance, you've still signed a contract to buy the car which is legally binding and separate from the finance agreement.

In such a case, the finance company will take the money back from the dealer, but you'll still need to pay for the car somehow.

I think in *some* cases, you can return the vehicle, but in almost all of them - you still need to pay for it, and they don't have to accept a return.
 
When you sign a finance agreement, you have the right to a “cooling off” period of 14 days from the day it was signed, this is a legal requirement on the finance companies.

Whilst this is true, it’s important to know that even if you change your mind and want to cancel - this might only apply to the finance itself, you’ll still need to pay for the car with your own money, you’re simply canceling the finance agreement - not the contract to actually buy the car.
what do you, practically, mean, the dealer gives the finance company back it's money, but that act is inadequate to cancel the contract, where you have to confirm they do have their money back (present a receipt)


so the finance company engineer was wrong with his analysis that the guts of the turbo was defective and it was, if the garage are to be believed, just the pipe come off (as several had suggested)
hire car : (maybe i'm confusing threads) I thought you had , nigh immediately bought another car so costs were n/a ... at the end of the day, had you liked the car the problem could have been fixed.
 
what do you, practically, mean, the dealer gives the finance company back it's money, but that act is inadequate to cancel the contract, where you have to confirm they do have their money back (present a receipt)

I don't really understand what you're asking?

so the finance company engineer was wrong with his analysis that the guts of the turbo was defective and it was, if the garage are to be believed, just the pipe come off (as several had suggested)

Well,

The garage had the car back for 48 hours, before they said it was "just a hose" so during that time, they could have done anything they liked with it and said anything they want. In that time - they could have dropped the engine, replaced the turbo - put it all back together again and said "what fault"..

In the final analysis it doesn't matter, because I have a written report from a professional third party vehicle inspector confirming exhaust fumes leaking from the turbo casing, and saying it would need to be disassembled and inspected, and that's all there really is to it.

People can surmise and theorise about it all day long, but it's the vehicle inspectors opinion that matters.
 
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