Carabao Cup Final Liverpool v Newcastle ** Spoilers ** [16th March 2025 @16:30]
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Nope. The large sides competing in European competitions consistently should have big enough squads and youth setups to face the demands of 2nd domestic cup. Only the owners of the super rich teams don’t want the competition. Liverpool players looked completely devastated at not wining yesterday and was the complete opposite for the Newcastle players.
Although it's not been enforced (much) clubs can be penalised for fielding weakened sides. Obviously it's a massive grey area and as said it's rarely enforced however if you get to the point where clubs are regularly fielding u17 sides it could become an issue but that's besides the point. What's the point of having a competition that's disrespected by 90% of the sides that enter it? It's not just the biggest sides that field weakened sides all the way up until the semi or final but EFL sides and a lot of the middle of the road PL sides. There's no money in the competition and realistically speaking, there's little hope of anybody outside 7-8 sides of winning it so nobody ends up really caring.
This is, at least imo, not just a compromise that works for most (or at least more) clubs but may actually inject something extra into the competition. Maybe if 6-7 of the biggest sides aren't involved next season, Brentford etc might start taking the competition more seriously than they are now as it provides them with a clear path to a trophy and a way into Europe. Wouldn't it be better for the competition to watch Brentford vs Brighton at 100% than City's 2nd string vs Bournemouths 2nd string?
It's not about entitlement, it's about opportunity. And as above I don't really see how it can be devalued more than it already has been. Almost every side fields a weakened team in it for all but the semis or final.
It sort of is when you say it's not right that they haven't won anything. The opportunity is there, you just have to earn it like Newcastle did in this cup run instead of making it a lesser competition.
It would easily be devalued more if you removed the top 7 sides on paper from the competition every year, which would likely massively reduce viewership and sponsorship etc.
A poll on this would be good, with keep as is, remove sides in Europe, scrap entirely and pancake options.
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Caporegime
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And yet they don't. Italy don't, Spain don't, Germany don't, France don't.
Play the youth if top teams don't care for it , not every club plays in Europe
Wimps
The opportunity isn't there though. In the last 20 years there's been 2 winners from outside the 'big 6' and it's the same with the FA Cup. Newcastle are a unique case as they've had huge amounts of money available to them without having European football to contend with, coupled with their lack of a trophy for decades meant they took the competition seriously. That doesn't apply to many (any?) other sides.
As for reduced viewership and sponsors, how much do you think the cup generates as it is? IINM the winners receive £100k. There's no money in it anyway so that's not the motivation for anybody now.
That doesn't really answer why it's not right the sides mentioned haven't/hadn't won anything. The opportunity is still there, it's just that when top teams are involved, they're going to win it a lot of the time. Take those away and it will mostly be won by PL sides just outside the European spots, so while we might have a few new winners, it still massively favours those sides and also becomes a complete tinpot/mickey mouse cup.
I was aware that the prize money was crap, though without the top 7 PL sides each year you might as well just scrap it altogether as the viewership etc will be pretty much non-existent. It wouldn't be far off EFL trophy level.
Silverware is the motivator, but not if you massively devalue how that silverware is seen.
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Some canny nonsense been spouted here. Simultaneously people are saying it needs to be scrapped because it's too many games for the European qualifying teams but also to give someone else a chance because only the top teams (with European football) win it.
Both of these things cannot be true...
Both of these things cannot be true...
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We're forever hearing about uneven playing fields etc etc and whatever anybody believes regarding how or why that's the case, nobody can deny that it is true. You say there opportunity is there but that's like saying you've got an opportunity with a supermodel - I guess you have if you're really lucky and she's blind but realistically you don't have a chance. Let's not pretend that barring very rare examples that there is not a glass ceiling in place for the vast majority of clubs. You might disagree but I'm all for creating opportunity for more clubs. I was the first to mock the Europa Conference League when it was introduced (and probably still will while Chelsea are in it or if Utd qualify for it) but seeing what it meant to West Ham supporters to win it changed my view. As many clubs as possible should have a genuine opportunity to have their big day out and hopefully see their side win something.
Sooner or later the Cup will be scrapped. Now you can either accept that or as I've done, find a way of keeping it and making the best of the situation. You can argue that it will be devalued but that ship has already sailed.
Caporegime
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Why not?
It can but also both of those things weren't said. The biggest sides have historically always won it, more games are being added from this season moving forwards.
I've been calling for it to be scrapped when we won it in 2 of the previous 3 seasons.@BaZ87 Not taking this defeat well are you
You can apply that to most competitions though, yes there might be a bit more variation in the winners over the last X number of years, but more often than not it's one of the top teams winning it with an outlier every now and then.
I don't think keeping it in the form you suggest is making the best of the situation, which is why I'd be interested to see a poll on it. It hasn't sailed yet, Klopp said last year's win was one of his best moments and it wasn't just Newcastle fans who enjoyed yesterday.
The Conference League thing with West Ham isn't even comparable imo, literally nobody other than their own fans gave a toss. The uneven playing field needs to be addressed, but not by creating tinpot competitions, especially if you're still going to have PL teams playing in them when the gap between that league and those below it is widening every year.
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You're right, you can apply that to other competitions but nothing is going to change in those competitions because they're thriving. The League Cup isn't. It's been scrapped in every other major League and we know both the biggest sides and FA were open to scrapping it when the Project Big Picture stuff came out 4-5 years ago. We also know that the PL and EFL were (before talks broke down) actively discussing a variety of possible changes (scrapping the two leg semi, u21 sides for European sides etc) as part of their deal.
As for Klopp's comments, I agree with what he said but that wasn't because of the competition but because of how we won it but that's not changed my view of the competition. And I've said that I don't think Newcastle supporters joy would have been any different had they beaten Brighton instead. But anyway.
I dunno.
I have very much enjoyed smashing the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal and now Liverpool in the final
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Surely the better argument would be to scrap it altogether then rather than turn it into some Mickey Mouse cup that would only survive a few more years.
Pretty sure you didn't have to explain it wasn't because of the competition lmao, the point was that the moment wouldn't have happened if the sides in Europe were excluded. I didn't argue their joy would be different, I said it's not comparable to the Conference League and that fans of other teams actually enjoy it. Way, way less interest in that conference league final than there was yesterday's game.
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If it's genuinely too many games then it results in fatigue, injuries and defeat. If you win it then it's clearly not too many games. Newcastle are very much an outlier in winning it without European football.