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cough***people with long eye lashes***coughPinkeyes said:
Card security at B&Q
- Thread starter SB118
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Associate
My wife was out shopping the other day and used my card to pay. the women at the till told my wife that their pin system wasn't working so she had to sign... signed card... job done .. and no questions asked!
Soldato
Actually sounds quite worrying, although iirc (this has probably been said a thousand times in this thread) large companies can appeal for some extra time to get chip and pin installed.
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Robdav said:
I always thought the signature was more to make the comsumer feel more at ease. To let them know, the shop goes some way to protect the card from being used illegally.
You don't *need* to sign to ensure a purchase (hence why you can make switch purchases over the phone).
I may be utterly wrong here, just my understanding of the whole signature thing. Would explain why shopkeepers care little about the signature matching. Like in this case, it may look dodgey, but you agreed to let her use your card - so there was no damage done...
Its quite clear that the only way we'll be safe is to have a voice recognition system that requires you to sing the chorus of Money Money Money by ABBA before the system will let you pay for goods or take any money out 
If you use the wifes card a lot why not get the bank to send you both a joint account card with both your names on the front which you can each have your own signature on?
If you use the wifes card a lot why not get the bank to send you both a joint account card with both your names on the front which you can each have your own signature on?
I've heard that basically right now if your card is lost or stolen, and the signature is forged, there are two possible options:-
Good forgery, means the card issuer picks up the bill in the end
Bad forgery, means the retailer picks up the bill for allowing a bad signature through
With chip and PIN, there's no middle ground. If someone somehow gets hold of your PIN, AFAIK the blame is placed squarely on the cardholder. :/
I've started using my credit card rather than debit a lot more lately, as it inherently offers more protection than a debit card... (the bank being more protective over their money rather than mine)
Good forgery, means the card issuer picks up the bill in the end
Bad forgery, means the retailer picks up the bill for allowing a bad signature through
With chip and PIN, there's no middle ground. If someone somehow gets hold of your PIN, AFAIK the blame is placed squarely on the cardholder. :/
I've started using my credit card rather than debit a lot more lately, as it inherently offers more protection than a debit card... (the bank being more protective over their money rather than mine
)Telescopi said:
These systems are being used more and more - most only accept Credit Cards at the moment though with Debit Card implimentation "coming soon" so who knows how long that will be.
But it is a good system - though not all sites use it, and its not enforced....yet
Certainly a great idea.
As for banks "shurgging" off fraud, not so much the case - it costs a fortune to impliment new anti-fraud techniques and also requires the UK banks to work together as a lot of systems work of each other and via many banks.
The Chip+Pin machine at your tesco may be dealth with via streamline (natwest/rbs etc.) yet the one at your dixons might be CardNet (Lloyds TSB) so if only one bank came out with a new technique it would cause a lot of issues.
But it is without a doubt more secure then Signatures - i do however agree the devices in some places are a pain that can barely be moved - one of the old designs was much better where the keypad was covered and you placed your hands in and typed the numbers - scrapped because a lot of people would struggle to use it without being able to see the keys.
Cueball said:
if we want a perfect systems, things like fingerprints etc.. just are not good enough - they can be forged! spy movies have taught us that
DNA / Brainwave scanners would be impossible to fool!
....unless a robber cloned us
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Pezboy said:
Actually it is not the retailer that chooses to impose PIN. You will still be able to use a C+P card and sign for it, the bank will decide if your account is C+P only. Certain accounts WILL be PIN only but a lot of accounts will allow both signing and PIN. Obviously stores can refuse sale if a customer does not know their PIN but the company could then lose money....
Magnetic strip (only) cards will still be issued by certain banks and chip cards with no pin will also be issued.
There is widespread mis-information about this and a lot of stores need to get it communicated across before its too late
Homer-Simpson said:Actually it is not the retailer that chooses to impose PIN. You will still be able to use a C+P card and sign for it, the bank will decide if your account is C+P only. Certain accounts WILL be PIN only but a lot of accounts will allow both signing and PIN. Obviously stores can refuse sale if a customer does not know their PIN but the company could then lose money....
Magnetic strip (only) cards will still be issued by certain banks and chip cards with no pin will also be issued.
There is widespread mis-information about this and a lot of stores need to get it communicated across before its too late
As far as i know,
All accounts currently are C&P +/or Signature, as of the 14th if you have a C+P card you will be forced to use the C+P function.
The only reason the current cards are both C+P and Signature are because its not yet enforced, new cards after the 14th such as renewall cards are unlikely to evne have the signature strip - or once all retailers have the machinery to deal with C+P - but by end of tyhe year i rekon all will be C+P only.
The only way now you can have a non C+P card is if you have a disability which means you can't use in which the bank will issue a DSA letter (think its DSA, its D something)
Untill the 14th you cant ask the retailler to override the pin and use the signature - they may so no - but technically they can.
Only real downside i've seen to "pin" cards so far is that they fall to bits very quickly, i've had loads, the chip either falls out or cracks along the length of the card, which jams any cashpoint i go near
SB118 said:Only real downside i've seen to "pin" cards so far is that they fall to bits very quickly, i've had loads, the chip either falls out or cracks along the length of the card, which jams any cashpoint i go near
absoloutley true, they are very frail in comparison
Soldato
Sb u shyster lol
Chip & pin only has to be implemented by 14th for insurance purposes, if a retailer decides not to use it and cover the risk themselves then its fine but obviously most companies are playing ball with the CC demands since it has been shown to reduce fraud dramatically.
The criminals will adapt I suppose but it will force the crime to become more personal instead of just nicking someones mail or handbag.
Chip & pin only has to be implemented by 14th for insurance purposes, if a retailer decides not to use it and cover the risk themselves then its fine but obviously most companies are playing ball with the CC demands since it has been shown to reduce fraud dramatically.
The criminals will adapt I suppose but it will force the crime to become more personal instead of just nicking someones mail or handbag.
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McDaniel said:
You will be able to bypass the PIN (same way as you normally would) however you will get a message on the terminal either saying they can't accept signatures on that type of card (if the bank has decided they only want PIN entries) or it will let you sign (if the bank allows it). That was what the documentation I received said.
According to the documentation that has been sent out to companies the checkout staff should just follow the instructions on the screen, the worst thing that can happen is it declines the card
Homer-Simpson said:You will be able to bypass the PIN (same way as you normally would) however you will get a message on the terminal either saying they can't accept signatures on that type of card (if the bank has decided they only want PIN entries) or it will let you sign.
According to the documentation that has been sent out to companies the checkout staff should just follow the instructions on the screen, the worst thing that can happen is it declines the card
Righto.
Still though it wont be long till all replacements unless special circumstances will only be C+P so the message will be dont accept signature.
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Thats what I dont get. All this money and they still allow signatures. At least this is a step in the right direction and hopefully more and more banks will force C+P only (unless you are disabled). The company I work for are now going to trial payments via fingerprint, I can't wait to have a look at it 