Carrying something for self defence

nice powerful co2 pistol, for ratting.

if asked "i heard a noise and thought the rats were back so got the gun to go and kill them, found two intruders, i panicked and threatened them with the gun thankfully they thought it was real and ran away"

or " i panicked and put 2 pellets through their testicles" :P
 
If someone breaks into my home and my family are in it, I should be allowed to pre-emptively shoot / stab / pummel / keyboard them on the basis that they're a credible threat to the lives of me and my family.

Not that I'd have the means to do so, unless my fists are more effective than I think they probably are.

Surely nobody would have a problem justifying such force in court given the absolute terror of having a threatening person in your home. The onus shouldn't be on the victim to justify their actions in such a stressful situation where instinct kicks in and everyone behaves differently. Murica has got it right on this one, sorry.
 
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If someone breaks into my home and my family are in it, I should be allowed to pre-emptively shoot / stab / pummel / keyboard them on the basis that they're a credible threat to the lives of me and my family.

Not that I'd have the means to do so, unless my fists are more effective than I think they probably are.

Surely nobody would have a problem justifying such force in court given the absolute terror of having a threatening person in your home. The onus shouldn't be on the victim to justify their actions in such a stressful situation where instinct kicks in and everyone behaves differently. Murica has got it right on this one, sorry.

the onus isnt ont he victim at all.

you can indeed stab etc an intruder if at the time you think its what you have to do.

the only time people get charged is when they say chase a guy down the street and beat them into a coma when they catch them, or one the intruder is down and unconcious continue to savagely beat them into disability.

you have the right to defend yourself however you think you have to at the time(its based on what a normal ordinary average person would think is reasonable in that situation), you do not have the right to inflict punishment or vengeance upon the intruder though.

but setting up a weapon so you can attack someone shows a certain premeditation.


Murica has got it right on this one, sorry.

"Murica" has pretty much identical laws for when theres an intruder in your house.
 
Carry a large D Cell Maglite on a belt loop. While not technically a weapon, you wouldn't want to get hit with one.

Dave
 
maglite and a properly trained dog,

even the most hardened of scumbags will think twice about tangling with a dog,
 
A bunch of keys can be very useful and we all have these in our pockets. Failing that pick up anything you have every right to protect your property and use reasonable force.
 
if the weapon is preplaced i think you can get in trouble.

ie, someone breaks in you grab the baseball bat you keep by the door for just such a scenario and beat them = can be in big trouble.

I really don't think so, unless you can provide a case?

Owning and keeping a baseball bat in the house isn't a crime, no matter were it is placed.
 

"You knew of an intended intruder and set a trap to hurt or to kill them rather than involve the police"

Yeah, if you know Bill is going to come over tonight and you set up spikes under the rug, but that is in no way the same as keeping a bat somewhere.

It's fine to have a baseball bat, but you might get in trouble if you smash someone's head in with it and it's deemed to be unreasonable given the circumstances.

I know, but the discussion was about pre-placed items, for example a bat by the door.
 
I really don't think so, unless you can provide a case?

Owning and keeping a baseball bat in the house isn't a crime, no matter were it is placed.

You aren't really allowed to prepare and as everything you say will be taken and used against you just be careful ie I panicked looked around and grabbed my lads bb bat, fine.

I panicked so grabbed the bat I keep behind my cushion for just such a purpose, not so fine.

Honesty is very often not the best policy but unless you try to grandstand and be billy bb the average uk cop isnt gona push you to incriminate yourself if you were defending your family and property from a burglar unless you are an ex heavyweight boxer and the burglar was a 13 year old lad.
 
Yes, and having a bat by the door and smashing someone up is different to grabbing something in the heat of the moment and smashing someone up. Would it eg. be reasonable to hear strange things in the night, pick up a bat, go downstairs and severely injure someone? Or would the reasonable thing be to stay at the top of the stairs with a bat and ring the police? That's basically going to be the problem, if you have a weapon and then engage with someone when you don't have to... if you have a bat by your bed and you wake up with someone there and you instinctively use it in self-defence, you'd be fine... if you go and look for them that's not necessarily the case.

Having a weapon on its own is fine. The circumstances in which it's used is what matters.

that was my understanding, not sure if things have changed.

either way when questioned whatever you hit them with just happened to be in arms reach when you saw them regardless of where you actually picked it up :P
 
If someone breaks into my home and my family are in it, I should be allowed to pre-emptively shoot / stab / pummel / keyboard them on the basis that they're a credible threat to the lives of me and my family.

Not that I'd have the means to do so, unless my fists are more effective than I think they probably are.

Surely nobody would have a problem justifying such force in court given the absolute terror of having a threatening person in your home. The onus shouldn't be on the victim to justify their actions in such a stressful situation where instinct kicks in and everyone behaves differently. Murica has got it right on this one, sorry.

Its called castle doctrine, which basically removes any requirement for you to flee when your home is invaded. When it comes to weapons as long as you can convince a jury you had a reasonable reason to have it at the time (ie it was just whatever came to hand) and that your use of it is reasonable.

Example- your making a meal, and a masked man breaks through the door with a gun and you stab him with a kitchen knife and kill him then youll probably get away with it.

However if you hear a bump in the night, grab your pre-loaded shotgun and give a shadowy figure both barrels with no warning and it turns out its an unarmed burglar then your going to jail.
 
kubotan legal if on your keys I have one wife has one ect

No, not legal it is an offensive weapon and you will be charged with carrying one if you use it and the police get involved.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/8606969.stm

A sturdy metal ballpoint pen on the other hand is not going to raise any eyebrows being in your pocket and at hand if you get attacked.

4D Maglite, very useful for lighting up those dark areas also is weighty as a sign of quality...
 
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You aren't really allowed to prepare

So are you saying you can't keep a bat in a certain location? If so show me where it states that.

Lying in wait for an person to come in and then hitting them is preparing. Leaving a bat around just in case isn't.
 
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Yes it is.

Leaving a bat around anywhere for NO reason is fine though.

yep, for example i keep a lot of heavy tools in my room, not for self defence but purely because i haven't got anywhere else to put them (thinks fondly of the luxury of a workshop)

bats are tricky, after all unless you play baseball as a hobby people might question why you felt the need to own a baseball bat apart from self defence. hence the popularity of maglites- everyone needs a torch somewhere.
 
So are you saying you can't keep a bat in a certain location? If so show me where it states that.
It isn't illegal but it will count against you in court.

A jury will consider all the facts and circumstances of a case when deciding whether the prosecution has proved that the defendant was not acting in self-defence. Keeping an offensive weapon or equivalent in an inappropriate location - e.g. a baseball bat beside your bed - and arming yourself with it before going downstairs will go some way to helping the prosecution prove that you confronted the intruder with the intention of attacking them.

If you found an intruder in your garage and grabbed the axe that was in the pile of tools, you'd be on safer ground.

Anyway, the usual points that should be made in any OCUK debate about self-defence:

The number of residents killed in their homes by strangers during the course of a burglary each year is extremely small. Worry about something else.
Professional and prolific burglars have no interest in the massively increased sentences that are doled out for using violence during a burglary. They will run when disturbed; escalating the situation to an armed confrontation is stupid.
Residents are only prosecuted for clearly exceeding the limits of self-defence or taking revenge. If you don't shoot a burglar in the back, chase them down the street before smashing a cricket bat over their head or tie them up before setting them on fire (all real examples), you are very unlikely to be prosecuted.
If you do carry something about in public, you are far more likely to end up in court for possession of an offensive weapon than you are to have cause to use it to defend yourself.
 
You don't need a reason to have a bat in your home.

of course not, i'm not denying someone's legal right to own a lump of wood (or aluminium if you want to be "tacticool" :p ) its just as TJM puts so well below that if you did use it in a confrontation to defend yourself, then a jury has a right to ask if you kept the bat purely for self-defence purposes, which of course becomes owning it as an offensive weapon.

therefore it's better to have something that would be reasonable to have at the time, a torch for powercuts or just whatever you happen to have lying around, a fire poker for example (if you have an open fire/woodburner)

It isn't illegal but it will count against you in court.

A jury will consider all the facts and circumstances of a case when deciding whether the prosecution has proved that the defendant was not acting in self-defence. Keeping an offensive weapon or equivalent in an inappropriate location - e.g. a baseball bat beside your bed - and arming yourself with it before going downstairs will go some way to helping the prosecution prove that you confronted the intruder with the intention of attacking them.

If you found an intruder in your garage and grabbed the axe that was in the pile of tools, you'd be on safer ground.

Anyway, the usual points that should be made in any OCUK debate about self-defence:

The number of residents killed in their homes by strangers during the course of a burglary each year is extremely small. Worry about something else.
Professional and prolific burglars have no interest in the massively increased sentences that are doled out for using violence during a burglary. They will run when disturbed; escalating the situation to an armed confrontation is stupid.
Residents are only prosecuted for clearly exceeding the limits of self-defence or taking revenge. If you don't shoot a burglar in the back, chase them down the street before smashing a cricket bat over their head or tie them up before setting them on fire (all real examples), you are very unlikely to be prosecuted.
If you do carry something about in public, you are far more likely to end up in court for possession of an offensive weapon than you are to have cause to use it to defend yourself.
 
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