Chinese cars

[dlockers]

The test got harder but also from what I understand they took out some airbags in the face lift. In my mind, given it was a face lift and the old car had them, that can only be for one thing which is reducing cost. It certainly wasn't for improving crash protection!

Renault Zoe downgraded to zero-star safety rating

The Renault Zoe has been given a zero-star safety rating by Euro NCAP in the latest round of testing.

www.fleetnews.co.uk

Interesting, didn't know that - I had given them benefit of the doubt. Side impact will basically kill you in summary

They quote facelift as a reason why they had to remove it, but its a garbage looking car anyway lol.

 

[GarethSouthgate]

Even our Government was made in China!

Do you mean Russia?

 

[adam cool dude]

The whole EV thing has come at a perfect time for China to make a real impact in the car industry as it is just a completely different way and new technology in terms of growth. All the old firm companies that have decades of ICE knowledge has been evaporated and everyone is now basically on a even playing field.

The West made us go EV to protect itself from the growing control of the oil states but in turn handing over its car industry to China in the process .

 

[mushtafa]

The biggest issue with these cars is availability of parts, technical data and diagnostic access. They might be OK as a second or third car - be prepared to be without it for a while when it needs repair.

I've done a clutch on an MG - was dealer only parts and took us nearly 2 weeks to get it. Wasn't exactly cheap either.

 

[sovietspybob]

The biggest issue with these cars is availability of parts, technical data and diagnostic access. They might be OK as a second or third car - be prepared to be without it for a while when it needs repair.

I've done a clutch on an MG - was dealer only parts and took us nearly 2 weeks to get it. Wasn't exactly cheap either.

That'll be an interesting one going forward, with so many new car companies becoming mainstream how will all the traditional parts suppliers adapt?

For example as Telsa have been around for a good few years now can you go to GFS or eurocarparts or whatever motorfactor and get all the bits you'd need like suspension arms, bushes etc for a model 3?

But then again people said the same thing about Japanese and then Korean cars so as long as the brand gets enough market penetration maybe that stuff will just sort itself out in a couple of years?

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Chinese cars are throwaways, so long as you are happy with that then so be it. Just don't expect the car to have any resale value and don't expect it to last more than 10 years before the rust make the floor fall out or the everything dies on you


As for people with their whataboutism regarding Tesla and iPhones - those products are built to western standards and enforced by the western owners because they are premium products - it may surprise you but the Chinese can make high quality products when they want to, the problem is they don't want unless you force them to and you give your technology so they know how to use western technology to create those products. The Chinese owned car brands are built to Chinese standards using Chinese tools and machines, they cut corners wherever possible - for example using recycled steel and not galvanising the steel, so by the time your car is 10 years old half of it is covered in rust and holes

Regarding Apple, they have entire teams of Production Engineering folks embedded in each of their CEM partner factories ensuring that quality and yields meet their very high standards. There’s an entire generation of highly skilled Chinese assembly and QA workers because of companies like Apple getting their high tech gadgets built in China.

 

[jpaul]

Iphones / smart-phones epitomise throwaway products too, perhaps just engineered for the lifespan their technology is expected to have in the West,
but the difficulty of repair/maintenance(right to repair lol) seem similar to chinese cars and his MG -
with the native cars, lower quality production, that 3-sigma tolerance is larger and, your car might be lucky, or you have a big repair bill before it's expected lifespan is reached
had seen they have MG4 powertrain parts on alibaba though , the new eurocarparts SAIC Front AUTO PARTS OF MG 4 ev Motor controller

Do the chinese manufacturers stockpile, over production parts, to enable repair in ten years time - what responsibility do they demonstrate

 

[b0rn2sk8]

That'll be an interesting one going forward, with so many new car companies becoming mainstream how will all the traditional parts suppliers adapt?

For example as Telsa have been around for a good few years now can you go to GFS or eurocarparts or whatever motorfactor and get all the bits you'd need like suspension arms, bushes etc for a model 3?

But then again people said the same thing about Japanese and then Korean cars so as long as the brand gets enough market penetration maybe that stuff will just sort itself out in a couple of years?

The vast majority of tesla cars are still under manufacturer warranty so there are very few businesses that are used to dealing with them outside of those who specialise in them like Cleevely EV / Mobile.

The Model S/X was pretty niche so the band only really took off with the Model 3.

So actually I doubt many, if any motor factors stock parts and generally stuff will need to be ordered in from specialists or Tesla.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Do the chinese manufacturers stockpile, over production parts, to enable repair in ten years time - what responsibility do they demonstrate

Do mainstream manufacturers actually stockpile parts for 10 years later?

I just can’t imagine there is a warehouse full of MK7 golf parts that are expected to last 10+ years in this just in time world. What I expect is that a small stock of parts is held for immediate dispatch and they are replenished regularly in batches as they are needed.

 

[FerretBoy]

That'll be an interesting one going forward, with so many new car companies becoming mainstream how will all the traditional parts suppliers adapt?

For example as Telsa have been around for a good few years now can you go to GFS or eurocarparts or whatever motorfactor and get all the bits you'd need like suspension arms, bushes etc for a model 3?

But then again people said the same thing about Japanese and then Korean cars so as long as the brand gets enough market penetration maybe that stuff will just sort itself out in a couple of years?

Tesla parts are generally very competitively priced, so maybe less to be made by third parties

 

[jpaul]

EU to investigate 'flood' of Chinese electric cars, weigh tariffs

The European Commission launched an investigation on Wednesday into whether to impose punitive tariffs to protect European Union producers against cheaper Chinese electric vehicle (EV) imports it says are benefiting from state subsidies.

www.reuters.com

BRUSSELS, Sept 13 (Reuters) - The European Commission launched an investigation on Wednesday into whether to impose punitive tariffs to protect European Union producers against cheaper Chinese electric vehicle (EV) imports it says are benefiting from state subsidies.

"Global markets are now flooded with cheaper electric cars. And their price is kept artificially low by huge state subsidies," European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said in her annual address to the bloc's parliament, seen by many in Brussels as a pitch for her re-appointment for a second term.


The Commission will have up to 13 months to assess whether to impose tariffs above the standard 10% EU rate for cars in its highest profile case against China since an EU probe into Chinese solar panels narrowly avoided a trade war a decade ago.

The anti-subsidy investigation covers battery-powered cars from China, so also includes non-Chinese brands made there, such as Tesla (TSLA.O), Renault (RENA.PA) and BMW (BMWG.DE). It is also unusual in that it is brought by the European Commission itself, rather than in response to an industry complaint.

...
"This is the start of a long journey," said analyst Simone Tagliapietra of think tank Bruegel. "It could ultimately work, but this must go in parallel with an active industrial policy to make sure EU industry quickly develops its competitiveness."

Chinese state subsidies for electric and hybrid vehicles were $57 billion from 2016-2022, according to consulting firm AlixPartners, helping China become the world's biggest EV producer and to pass Japan as the largest auto exporter in the first quarter of this year.

uk is itself subsidisding battery factories / JLR etc. now, as De has done, so not sure why we are whiter than white.

 

[DarrenM343]

The whole EV thing has come at a perfect time for China to make a real impact in the car industry as it is just a completely different way and new technology in terms of growth. All the old firm companies that have decades of ICE knowledge has been evaporated and everyone is now basically on a even playing field.

The West made us go EV to protect itself from the growing control of the oil states but in turn handing over its car industry to China in the process .

There's still a stigma about buying Chinese brands and it's got worse I think, this is something China will need to resolve to pull in the buyers. I'm sure there's many an EV buyer who will say they'd never buy a Chinese car and go on about Taiwan, communism etc yet happy to buy a built in China Tesla.

I wouldn't say it's a level playing field. Legacy manufacturers still have vast know-how, experience of mass production of automobiles, all the supporting infrastructure (inc dealers) and there's a lot of of engineering expertise that goes into a car other than just the ICE running gear. And then there's building cars that last. Even Tesla have struggled with various aspects , quality control and making their cars drive as well as they should. They're improving of course but legacy manufacurers are catching up on the EV side of things too.

But if can get over the Chinese brand label, and if they can knock out good quality cars I'm not sure Western manufacturers would be able to compete longer term unless they overly tax cars from Chinese manufacturers. China know this too.

 

[jpaul]

her speech

 

[Jonnycoupe]

EU to investigate 'flood' of Chinese electric cars, weigh tariffs

The European Commission launched an investigation on Wednesday into whether to impose punitive tariffs to protect European Union producers against cheaper Chinese electric vehicle (EV) imports it says are benefiting from state subsidies.

www.reuters.com

uk is itself subsidisding battery factories / JLR etc. now, as De has done, so not sure why we are whiter than white.

500milion into a £4 bn investment is nothing of the sort similar.

 

[Tykey]

Not sure i'd buy a Chinese designed and built car. They know how to build things but imo their software often has bugs or glitches, a Chinese EV will have a lot of software running.

 

[Nasher]

Cheap cars often cut corners on things you won't notice at first, like rust protection. Kia are cheap (or used to be), they don't galvanize stuff and they rust through.

 

[SDK^]

Not sure i'd buy a Chinese designed and built car. They know how to build things but imo their software often has bugs or glitches, a Chinese EV will have a lot of software running.

You've been buying Chinese designed and made stuff for years already.
Also, show me some software which hasn't had bugs or vulnerabilities found - basically all software is work in progress

 

[adam cool dude]

Cheap cars often cut corners on things you won't notice at first, like rust protection. Kia are cheap (or used to be), they don't galvanize stuff and they rust through.

Also the vast majority of the "Premium" brands have been selling rubbish for a good 15 years too so they are not angels in this.

Rusty Mercedes in the 00's. BMW turning their 1 series into a FWD econobox based on Mini underpinnings. VW have been tarting up VW's chassis and putting Audi badges on them for decades.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Mazda MX-5… rust…

Does any more need to be said?

 

[Tykey]

You've been buying Chinese designed and made stuff for years already.
Also, show me some software which hasn't had bugs or vulnerabilities found - basically all software is work in progress

I haven't been buying complex Chinese designed tech stuff years thank you. I have bought some of it in recent years and the software with it is not great imo, i haven't had as many issues with western software. I can give some examples that i've bought - Pimax vr headsets, Dekco security systems, Chinese (i forget the brand name) smart watch. Buggy/glitchy software. I've bought Meta vr headsets, yale security systems, fitbit smart watch. All western designed (note i'm not saying western made) and running western software. No problems compared to the former examples.

Also, not sure it anyone has mentioned this yet but if we take Chinese designed and made motorbikes as a pointer to the build quality of their vehicles then well, it's not a good sign. They are widely accepted as being more rust and fault prone than other motorbikes.