Chinese Grand Prix 2013, Shanghai - Race 3/19

We've had most of the suggestions regarding tyres and qualification that have been suggested here, and, according to the 'so called' pundits, none of them have really worked although I would say that until this year it wasn't that bad. There is no real solution but this one, with the tyre degradation, is by far the worse I have ever experienced.
As for the race, no one in front of JB will be able to power off away from him and all he'll have to do is stay close to the train of cars, close to the rear of the finger and maybe picking off one or two himself. Then once they've all gone into the pits JB will be able to take advantage of clean air and put in some decent lap times. The finger will probably have disappeared off into the distance by then. However JB is again this weekend proving his ability to drive around the issues that the McLaren has, unlike Perez..
 
Jono8 said:
I thought F1 was supposed to be going more green and less wasteful? Surely making tyres that last a few laps is just going backwards on that? :confused:
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They get recycled iirc. There was some video from Pirelli a few weeks ago about it.
 
Mr Jack said:
Why bother with this complexity when they could simply bin the stupid "start on same tyres" rule and let everyone choose whichever starting tyre they like?
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Because people don't care about which tyres they start on, button could have done a good lap on the mediums, but didn't, its about the condition of the tyres, not which tyres they start on. They have to use the softs(or super softs) in the race anyway, its more an issue with how fast they degrade and using them in qualifying is the only way to be competitive but also means they'll be most hurt by a fast lap and be worse at the start of a race.


Also complexity..... lol,

As said the issue isn't if you start on softs or mediums, Vettel didn't have to finish a lap, that is the issue. If he wanted to start on mediums, he should do a full lap at quali pace, then he can start on mediums. Button wanted to start on mediums and did a full lap, but stupid slow and he only finished the lap because it would leap frog him above Vettel, if Vettel had finished his lap Button wouldn't have bothered.

We need, to force drivers to all compete at the same level, IE everyone finishes a competitive lap in Q3, this would force all drivers to come out and do a qualifying run. Second, there should be a bigger tyre allocation, tyres that don't degrade as badly, and I think they should also be allowed to start the race on fresh rubber, even if they want to keep the same compound rule.

Such bad tyres everyone is pitting after 5 laps and all the leaders get caught up in traffic is daft, there is zero advantage for getting pole over not doing a lap, starting on mediums and having no traffic after 5 laps, its a disadvantage to qualify well in this situation and that is bad for the fans. People paid money to go to China and go to qualifying, then see 3 drivers not even bother to try. If this race ends up Vettel, Button, Hulk(it won't be for example) then next race, we might get fans turning up and seeing 10 drivers do an in and out lap in Q3.

Ultimately as always sport is about entertainment and competition, not doing your best in Q3 because it hurts you in a race is absolutely the wrong way to go about it. Everyone who gets into Q3 should have pole as a target and no way to sneak up a few places without racing, and have an advantage on those who actually push for pole.

Realistically if they want the start on compound you qualify on, they should let you start on a fresh set(well whatever set you want, if you have fresh tyres, that, or use your least bad used set). Ultimately what is best for the sport itself, and the fans, is if all 10 drivers did at least 2 ultra fast runs in Q3, maybe add in a extra set of Q3 only soft tyres.

Three drivers today didn't bother to compete in Q3, and whats worse is, they have a very good chance at doing better than the guy who got pole because of how stupid qualifying and the tyres work....
 
Just the resut we wanted. Be the first prime runner. Gonna be very interesting tomoz!
 
Those on the soft tyre will get a much better start than those on the mediums.

They should easily drive away from those on the medium tyres for a few laps at a rate of a second or more per lap to start with.

They will have to stop within 5-10 laps, and will come out on much fresher rubber than those on the mediums, and should easily have the pace to be ahead after the first round of pit stops.

Those starting on the mediums will get an advantage at the end of the race, when they can push hard on softs for the final laps, but it might all be too late by then.
 
Mark Webber believes Formula 1 has become 'a little bit WWF' thanks to the extreme degradation being delivered by the latest Pirelli tyres.

Ahead of the Chinese Grand Prix that most drivers expect to be dominated by difficulties with excessive wear on the soft tyres, Webber suggests the bid to chase spectacle has gone too far.

"It will all look good in the first five or six laps, having everyone fighting, but it's a little bit WWF at the moment," said Webber, referring to the former name of the World Wrestling Entertainment series.

Webber also reckoned that the tyres were so sensitive that there was little chance of actually being able to race with them, even if the soft tyre was used for the final stint when cars had less fuel on board.

"[Adrian] Sutil tried that in Melbourne and Pirelli said that there were indications that the race fell apart for him because he tried to race people," he said.

"Whatever fuel load you have got in the car, if you race people, you are in trouble. So just don't race, put the tyre on and just try and get home."

Pole position man Lewis Hamilton admitted that for him the tyre situation was a step into the unknown, especially with big question marks about how long the soft compound will last.

"I don't feel particularly comfortable with these tyres," he said. "It doesn't really last very long, but I believe other people were having the same problems. It is not just us."

His Mercedes team-mate Nico Rosberg thought the soft tyre situation was pretty extreme.

"For sure it will be quite a crazy race, definitely all over the place," he said.

"With those tyres it is more of a question of how many corners you are going to get to, rather than laps!

"For sure, and at the start, as we have seen on Friday, there are differences of seconds between some people on options, so it will be very challenging and a lot can happen definitely."
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I have cancelled my Sky sub. The only thing I had it for was F1.

Does anyone by any chance have a "spare" login for their online sky account they could let me use for the races this season?
 
spudbynight said:
I have cancelled my Sky sub. The only thing I had it for was F1.

Does anyone by any chance have a "spare" login for their online sky account they could let me use for the races this season?
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I love that thoughtfulness.

Can I afford Sky F1? Yes.
Do I want Sky F1? Yes.
Do I want to pay for Sky F1? No.
Will someone give me Sky F1 for free...?

Now, you may not be able to afford it and fair enough, you didn't make that clear, and it's certainly next-to-impossible to justify having a Sky sub for F1 only, but the your post reeks of selfishness.
 
englishpremier said:
Those on the soft tyre will get a much better start than those on the mediums.

They should easily drive away from those on the medium tyres for a few laps at a rate of a second or more per lap to start with.

They will have to stop within 5-10 laps, and will come out on much fresher rubber than those on the mediums, and should easily have the pace to be ahead after the first round of pit stops.

Those starting on the mediums will get an advantage at the end of the race, when they can push hard on softs for the final laps, but it might all be too late by then.
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This, pretty much.

For me, the biggest difference comes at the first pit-stop. Those on soft tyres will need to pit within 8 laps or so, which will mean they rejoin well within the pack. Not an ideal situation.

Running softs at the end of the race, rather than the beginning, is clearly a better strategy (less fuel so less weight and less graining, more rubbered-in track etc), but whether it can overcome the ~1s/lap advantage early on, we will see.

For me, the race is between Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel. If the tyre strategy works out, and Vettel can pass enough cars at the start, I would give him the advantage. If not, then the Ferarri's race pace should allow it to overtake Hamilton over the long run (Ferrari shown better race pace vs qualifying than Mercedes this year). I struggle to see a scenario where Hamilton wins, short of Alonso / Vettel being stuck in traffic at some point. I hope that I'm wrong (LH fan here), but that's the way I'm calling it.

Anyway, should be an interesting race tonight :)
 
Duff-Man said:
This, pretty much.

For me, the biggest difference comes at the first pit-stop. Those on soft tyres will need to pit within 8 laps or so, which will mean they rejoin well within the pack. Not an ideal situation.

Running softs at the end of the race, rather than the beginning, is clearly a better strategy (less fuel so less weight and less graining, more rubbered-in track etc), but whether it can overcome the ~1s/lap advantage early on, we will see.

For me, the race is between Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel. If the tyre strategy works out, and Vettel can pass enough cars at the start, I would give him the advantage. If not, then the Ferarri's race pace should allow it to overtake Hamilton over the long run (Ferrari shown better race pace vs qualifying than Mercedes this year). I struggle to see a scenario where Hamilton wins, short of Alonso / Vettel being stuck in traffic at some point. I hope that I'm wrong (LH fan here), but that's the way I'm calling it.

Anyway, should be an interesting race tonight :)
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From Mr mens post above
"Sutil tried that in Melbourne and Pirelli said that there were indications that the race fell apart for him because he tried to race people"

He did hard-hard-soft and he went from 2nd(I think) to 7th.
 
Mr Men said:
Drivers against tyres
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You can appreciate where they are coming from. If I was one of the fastest racing drivers on the planet I would want to show my true pace.

But as a spectator these tyres do create the unknown, bringing different strategies and necessitating interesting performances.
 
this_is_gav said:
I love that thoughtfulness.

Can I afford Sky F1? Yes.
Do I want Sky F1? Yes.
Do I want to pay for Sky F1? No.
Will someone give me Sky F1 for free...?

Now, you may not be able to afford it and fair enough, you didn't make that clear, and it's certainly next-to-impossible to justify having a Sky sub for F1 only, but the your post reeks of selfishness.
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I had SKY F1. At the moment I can't afford it.

Last season I offered the use of my login to three different forum members.

Nothing selfish about it at all and I object to your accusation. I was simply hoping one forum member might be willing to help another out. I don't see anything to be gained from your judgemental tone and I think it was uncalled for.
 
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I've always liked the tyres.. Until now

That q session was farcical.. Quali was about 15mins

I can't think of the best solution but doing a vettel should not be the best strategy.. However Ifear it is

A tyre should last into double figures whatever the car / driving style
 
deuse said:
From Mr mens post above
"Sutil tried that in Melbourne and Pirelli said that there were indications that the race fell apart for him because he tried to race people"

He did hard-hard-soft and he went from 2nd(I think) to 7th.
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Running on hards for the entire race would clearly be the better strategy, but since every diver must use the soft tyres at some point, there is less to lose by running them at the end.

It's hard to see how this would be a disadvantage in terms of absolute race time (assuming every driver had a clear track). However, whether it will make up for the eight places Vettel finds himself behind the lead, we will need to wait and see. A lot of it depends how badly Vettel gets held up in the early race (which will depend a lot on how good his start is), and how badly the front runners get held in traffic after their first pit stops.

Certainly Sutil went onto the soft tyres too early in Melborne, but the same won't necessarily be true for Vettel. If nothing else, saving the soft tyres for the final stint will give Red Bull the chance to see how they have performed on other cars.


Overall, my money is on Alonso for the race tomorrow. If the Mercedes can match the race pace of the Ferrari I will be pleasantly surprised.
 
i havent follow F1 properly for a while;.

what have changes with the tyres? i know the rules have changed but what have really changed? why the drivers complaining about the tyres? i remember all drivers love the tyres in 2006/7.

thanks
 
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