If the race was 1 lap longer, Vettel would have come 2nd.
And Bernie said they were looking at providing additional sets of tyres for Friday, starting in Spain. Nothing about changing them or changing the allocation for races.
Chinese Grand Prix 2013, Shanghai - Race 3/19
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If the race was 1 lap longer, Vettel would have come 2nd.
And Bernie said they were looking at providing additional sets of tyres for Friday, starting in Spain. Nothing about changing them or changing the allocation for races.
Man of Honour
So whos who?
I thought this was sarcasm when I read it last night, seems not? People have been saying this for years and you stood firmly on the other side of the fence. What's changed that hasn't been the same with the tyres since pirelli came in?
In the first season with them Webber highlighted that no one was pushing anymore, the cars were well within themselves and driving strictly to a pre planned pace rather than racing each other.
Last season was a lottery until the cars got used to the tyres. Then Red Bull were almost unbeatable. In a few races I'm sure it will settle down again.
Soldato
Hi, lets remind ourselves that Pirelli are only doing what has been asked of them. I believe that when Martin asked Bernie about the situation he said that more tyres would be available on fridays practices and that qualifying will be 'tweaked', whatever that means....
Soldato
Same here.
It's up to Pirelli how soft\hard they make them not the FIA. As I've been saying for ages what was wrong with seasons
2007-2010 using Bridgestone? no false overtaking every pass was a REAL pass and the WDC was very very close.
People moaned it was not exciting enough, let's face it F1 will never have a perfect balance between racing and entertainment.
Soldato
Maybe the BBC can bring back Moto Cross and Banger racing, that will please none F1 people
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Despite tyre wear being a bit too important now, I do think F1 is still in a better place than it was a few years ago. I'm sure everyone remembers Abu Dhabi in 2010 where Alonso was powerless to do anything as the title slowly slipped away from his grasp for every lap he was sat behind Petrov, unable to even attempt an over-take. If we contrast that with what happened at Brazil last year with Vettel being last at the end of the first lap and then charging through the field with a damaged car (and a lot of luck!) to take sixth place and the title, I know which I prefer.
For the record I'm not a huge Vettel fan but it was bloody exciting stuff last year!
For the record I'm not a huge Vettel fan but it was bloody exciting stuff last year!
The real tell in all this was the point at which Webber, after having started in the pits and coming in to get rid of the softs on Lap 1, leapfrogged both Rosberg(came in lap 5)
and Massa (came in on lap 7)
Laughable.
If Webber didnt have the problems, i reckon he would have finished top 6 which makes a mockery of the tyres and qualifying.
and Massa (came in on lap 7)
Laughable.
If Webber didnt have the problems, i reckon he would have finished top 6 which makes a mockery of the tyres and qualifying.
I've never been "firmly on the other side of the fence" on either the tyres or the DRS.
I prefer them to the alternatives, just. DRS is less crap than endless laps of drivers stuck behind each other, and the Pirelli tyres causing overtaking are less crap than everyone just passing in the pits with refueling.
They are both still terrible, but they are less terrible than the alternatives. Lesser of two evils, if you will.
Most passes happened in the pits. Removing refuelling immediately doubled the number of on track overtakes. The Pirrelli tyres then doubled them again. 2007 to 2009 had 1/4 of the number of on track overtakes as we have now. The FIA felt that 15 overtakes per race was unacceptable. And I can see why. When you look at a 60 lap race with 20 drivers, that translates to every driver making on average less than 1 overtake a race. For the fans, it means 1 overtake happened ever 4 laps. The FIA rightly saw this as a problem and set about trying to increase it. Removing refueling forced cars to overtake on track not with fuel strategy, so we got double the number of overtakes. However we still had people stuck behind other drivers. DRS and Pirelli then came in and double the number of overtakes again. But, it looks like its gone way to far now.
There must be a balance. 15 overtakes a race is not good, but then is 60 overtakes a race where half of them are from push to pass or because of everyone having to nurse the tyres any better? Most people will think not. Was 2010 the ideal middle ground? Where the title was decided because the design of F1 cars mean they struggle to pass marginally slower cars? I doubt Alonso fans would think so.
I prefer them to the alternatives, just. DRS is less crap than endless laps of drivers stuck behind each other, and the Pirelli tyres causing overtaking are less crap than everyone just passing in the pits with refueling.
They are both still terrible, but they are less terrible than the alternatives. Lesser of two evils, if you will.
Most passes happened in the pits. Removing refuelling immediately doubled the number of on track overtakes. The Pirrelli tyres then doubled them again. 2007 to 2009 had 1/4 of the number of on track overtakes as we have now. The FIA felt that 15 overtakes per race was unacceptable. And I can see why. When you look at a 60 lap race with 20 drivers, that translates to every driver making on average less than 1 overtake a race. For the fans, it means 1 overtake happened ever 4 laps. The FIA rightly saw this as a problem and set about trying to increase it. Removing refueling forced cars to overtake on track not with fuel strategy, so we got double the number of overtakes. However we still had people stuck behind other drivers. DRS and Pirelli then came in and double the number of overtakes again. But, it looks like its gone way to far now.
There must be a balance. 15 overtakes a race is not good, but then is 60 overtakes a race where half of them are from push to pass or because of everyone having to nurse the tyres any better? Most people will think not. Was 2010 the ideal middle ground? Where the title was decided because the design of F1 cars mean they struggle to pass marginally slower cars? I doubt Alonso fans would think so.
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Soldato
I did ask you what was wrong with seasons 2007-2011 and all you came back with was a stat on overtakes now.
So that's why I thought you was all for this false racing.
DRS and these Tires are a joke and false racing both should be scrapped next year in my opinion.
F1 the pinnacle of motor sport..yeh what ever.
The problem with 2007 to 2010 was the lack of on track overtaking.
Just because 2011 onwards doesn't have this issue doesn't mean they are all rosey and perfect. The last 3 years are still broken, but for different reasons.
The problem with the refueling era was the lack of overtaking.
The problem with 2010 was that drivers were forced into passing on track, but then couldnt
The problem with 2011 onwards is that the overtaking is being forced through false means.
None of them are ideal.
The more I think about it, the more I think there might be a solution to be found in durable tyres but a mandated X stops per race? There are also other formulas using DRS style systems that could offer better alternatives.
Just because 2011 onwards doesn't have this issue doesn't mean they are all rosey and perfect. The last 3 years are still broken, but for different reasons.
The problem with the refueling era was the lack of overtaking.
The problem with 2010 was that drivers were forced into passing on track, but then couldnt
The problem with 2011 onwards is that the overtaking is being forced through false means.
None of them are ideal.
The more I think about it, the more I think there might be a solution to be found in durable tyres but a mandated X stops per race? There are also other formulas using DRS style systems that could offer better alternatives.
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Soldato
Or, scrap development regs and let teams use whatever aids or car improvements they wish.
And F1 would die in 3 years due to spiralling costs.
Soldato
Do you not think teams would manage their finances correctly to ensure longevity?
Judging by the state of world economics and the amount of pay drivers in F1.....
Bernie said that the whole race would be shown on the BBC
They did didn't they? The start?
Pretty poo race to be fair, Tyres are ruining it for me. Those DRS zones were far too easy too.
Mechanical grip (and less aero) would sort out the lack of overtaking (and make it "real")
Add refuelling /tyre stops so the pinnacle of motorsport is back to being exactly that.
(edit - I don't believe this will ever happen, but that's how it SHOULD be done)
Luca Di Montezemolo has been saying F1 is too aero reliant, but his words just got dismissed as sour grapes by the masses, but he off course is right. Reducing the reliance on aero and making it more mechanical grip is an issue they have never solved.
Modern brakes don't help either with the braking zones being so short the days of steel brakes and late braking are long gone, bring back steel brakes, remove the aero dominance and give the manual gearboxes, sorted.
Modern brakes don't help either with the braking zones being so short the days of steel brakes and late braking are long gone, bring back steel brakes, remove the aero dominance and give the manual gearboxes, sorted.