Soldato
This article should hopefully explain it in a bit more detail: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/26946444
Chinese Grand Prix 2014, Shanghai - Race 4/19
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
This article should hopefully explain it in a bit more detail: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/26946444
Soldato
Ah, that explains where I was getting confused. For some reason I was under the impression that the compressor and the turbine could not go directly above the engine block because it wouldn't fit. With this thinking the only conventional position of the entire turbo would be entirely in front or behind the engine block itself. Continuing with that, I thought that Mercedes had been clever in realising that the shaft between the turbine and the compressor could fit above the engine block, meaning that a sufficiently split turbo could allow the turbine to go on one side of the engine and the compressor on the other side of the engine block, and that without this ingenuity the split turbo would have to stick out behind or in front of the engine a long way, causing all sorts of packaging problems.
I have no idea why I was thinking this though because there is nothing to stop the teams from mounting the turbo above the engine. I suppose I can blame it on a mixture of the lateness of the hour and all the F1 engine renders which have shown the turbo very low down compared to the engine block
A lot of talk about how the merc engine is keeping the team so far ahead of everyone. If only there were over teams on the grid running it so we could tell for sure...
oh wait.
unless mclaren are having a *really* bad year then merc engine can't be worth that much.
oh wait.
unless mclaren are having a *really* bad year then merc engine can't be worth that much.
Soldato
2014 Chinese Grand Prix team radio transcript
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/04/23/2014-chinese-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/04/23/2014-chinese-grand-prix-team-radio-transcript/
Soldato
Like I've said a few times, both Force India and Williams have overtaken McLaren, so yeah, McLaren are having a poor season so far from a performance point of view (Melbourne excepted, when everything was up in the air a bit).
Soldato
We will be back. November is a long time away.
McLaren has revealed that its factory has already produced the downforce improvements it needs to move up the Formula 1 grid.
Efforts to lift the performance of its MP4-29 have become more urgent after a disappointing performance in the Chinese Grand Prix.
But racing director Eric Boullier insists there is no huge concern about its plight because progress back at base has been impressive in recent weeks.
However, because of the long lead time that it takes for updates to be manufactured and delivered, it may take a few races before all the upgrades are ready.
When asked by AUTOSPORT if he believed that progress would be enough to get McLaren back in to the fight behind Mercedes, Boullier said: "Definitely.
"This is 100 per cent sure because we know already back in the factory what is going to happen in the next three or four races.
"I know what is going on, so I know we are on a very good development rate.
"What we picked up now since a few weeks is good. Very good.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113601
McLaren has revealed that its factory has already produced the downforce improvements it needs to move up the Formula 1 grid.
Efforts to lift the performance of its MP4-29 have become more urgent after a disappointing performance in the Chinese Grand Prix.
But racing director Eric Boullier insists there is no huge concern about its plight because progress back at base has been impressive in recent weeks.
However, because of the long lead time that it takes for updates to be manufactured and delivered, it may take a few races before all the upgrades are ready.
When asked by AUTOSPORT if he believed that progress would be enough to get McLaren back in to the fight behind Mercedes, Boullier said: "Definitely.
"This is 100 per cent sure because we know already back in the factory what is going to happen in the next three or four races.
"I know what is going on, so I know we are on a very good development rate.
"What we picked up now since a few weeks is good. Very good.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113601
Man of Honour
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and then we get the usual line that the upgrades didn't perform as expected.
Meanwhile, all the other teams have received upgrades too...
Meanwhile, all the other teams have received upgrades too...
My thoughts exactly, would love it to be true, but the chances of it being true are almost the same as me winning the lottery.
Caporegime
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Yup, generic statements every team makes which basically might be true in regards to performance as of today, but other teams will move forwards as well. I really don't expect them to move forwards significantly this year.
People talking about their rear suspension fat wishbone things, that other teams considered it(I presume after they saw mclaren with it but maybe some did before) and most seem to agree it creates too much drag too often to be worth the small boost at highest speeds. Considering Mclaren aren't breaking any straight line speed records with it I think it's coming across as a disadvantage rather than advantage.
Mclaren seem to be that way recently, the big new idea's they have always seem to be not actually any good. New aero guys will probably help but as it stands they won't even start work till end of the season though I think their court fight with RBR will result in the gardening leave guy starting straight away with Fallows being allowed back to RBR.
Mclaren are where Merc are in terms of needing to build up a quality team again before that new team can create a new car. They've had guys there for years but just aren't producing the cars or ideas they should be. I expect Boullier and Ron to have a huge effect but it will be long term not short term.
In terms of the merc engine, there has been talk that Mclaren are using a different fuel supplier and that maybe it's not working optimally with the engine so they are losing something compared to the rest of the merc teams. Which would explain why they seem worse than the other teams, though increased drag on the rear wishbones could also be hurting them significantly.
People talking about their rear suspension fat wishbone things, that other teams considered it(I presume after they saw mclaren with it but maybe some did before) and most seem to agree it creates too much drag too often to be worth the small boost at highest speeds. Considering Mclaren aren't breaking any straight line speed records with it I think it's coming across as a disadvantage rather than advantage.
Mclaren seem to be that way recently, the big new idea's they have always seem to be not actually any good. New aero guys will probably help but as it stands they won't even start work till end of the season though I think their court fight with RBR will result in the gardening leave guy starting straight away with Fallows being allowed back to RBR.
Mclaren are where Merc are in terms of needing to build up a quality team again before that new team can create a new car. They've had guys there for years but just aren't producing the cars or ideas they should be. I expect Boullier and Ron to have a huge effect but it will be long term not short term.
In terms of the merc engine, there has been talk that Mclaren are using a different fuel supplier and that maybe it's not working optimally with the engine so they are losing something compared to the rest of the merc teams. Which would explain why they seem worse than the other teams, though increased drag on the rear wishbones could also be hurting them significantly.
I was listening to the R5L commentary so it may well have been inaccurate but I could have sworn they stated late in the Chinese race that JB had the highest outright speed
Caporegime
No, his team mate did (source). Rather stunningly, Button was almost 20 kph slower
More disturbingly still, Button posted the 18th (!) fastest on best lap time (source). Now both of those stats are tightly linked to strategy but, still, that's a worrying show from McLaren.(Hmm... looking at the first link in detail, I'm not sure I trust it)
Caporegime
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Yeah, not a chance, fastest Hamilton did in the speed trap is only listed as almost 80kph lower than they did in FP1 
I know the RBR struggles for pace but I don't think Vettel was 90kph down on Magnussen either.
Free practice speed trap numbers on formula1.com for all sessions in bahrain and China seem to show them 6-10kph down on Merc/Force India depending on the track, and it seems pretty consistently the case.
Thing is compared to the other merc teams. Mercedes themselves seem to have great downforce and can blow the FI/Williams/Mclaren away, but FI/Williams seem to lack downforce and as such struggle to keep up in corners, braking and especially in the wet. But they have great top speed due to lacking downforce and a fast engine.
Mclaren seem to lack the downforce yet also lack the top speed and raw pace the FI/Williams appear to have, which would point towards engine and/or there drag inducing rear wishbones being absolutely the wrong way to go, or both.
Actually looking back at Aussie and Malaysia, at both tracks they were up there for fp1/fp2, but come fp3 they dropped way down in the speed traps compared to everyone else. So just running silly low downforce settings but ending up with similar race setup to others and losing that much speed? Quite odd, in the past two races they've shown the same gap but throughout testing.
I know the RBR struggles for pace but I don't think Vettel was 90kph down on Magnussen either.
Free practice speed trap numbers on formula1.com for all sessions in bahrain and China seem to show them 6-10kph down on Merc/Force India depending on the track, and it seems pretty consistently the case.
Thing is compared to the other merc teams. Mercedes themselves seem to have great downforce and can blow the FI/Williams/Mclaren away, but FI/Williams seem to lack downforce and as such struggle to keep up in corners, braking and especially in the wet. But they have great top speed due to lacking downforce and a fast engine.
Mclaren seem to lack the downforce yet also lack the top speed and raw pace the FI/Williams appear to have, which would point towards engine and/or there drag inducing rear wishbones being absolutely the wrong way to go, or both.
Actually looking back at Aussie and Malaysia, at both tracks they were up there for fp1/fp2, but come fp3 they dropped way down in the speed traps compared to everyone else. So just running silly low downforce settings but ending up with similar race setup to others and losing that much speed? Quite odd, in the past two races they've shown the same gap but throughout testing.
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Soldato
Mclaren are struggling with getting the tyres working in the right zone - either too hot or too cold and the car struggles, they were testing with and without the butterfly suspension in the Bahrain testing as well btw.
You've also got to remember that Melbourne is a very different circuit to Shanghai and Bahrain for example, and Malaysia for that matter.
Also let's not forget that in Bahrain a Podium was real possibility had the SC not intervened and subsequent clutch problems.
Having a double Podium in the first race and a potential podium in Bahrain is a heck of a lot better than the start to last year, let's put things into perspective and not be too gloomy about things.
The cause for concern is of course the last race though, where the car struggles massively in wet and dry and the circuit was cold all weekend long, the car lacks downforce, but I'm sure much more downforce will be coming and as EB has said, the factory has already produced it.
Gary Anderson commented trackside at T1 - T2 in Shanghai about how the car had a tendancy to oversteer and everytime it came though there JB and KM were taking a different line, really hard to dial things in with those turns when you are lacking downforce and it showed.
You've also got to remember that Melbourne is a very different circuit to Shanghai and Bahrain for example, and Malaysia for that matter.
Also let's not forget that in Bahrain a Podium was real possibility had the SC not intervened and subsequent clutch problems.
Having a double Podium in the first race and a potential podium in Bahrain is a heck of a lot better than the start to last year, let's put things into perspective and not be too gloomy about things.
The cause for concern is of course the last race though, where the car struggles massively in wet and dry and the circuit was cold all weekend long, the car lacks downforce, but I'm sure much more downforce will be coming and as EB has said, the factory has already produced it.
Gary Anderson commented trackside at T1 - T2 in Shanghai about how the car had a tendancy to oversteer and everytime it came though there JB and KM were taking a different line, really hard to dial things in with those turns when you are lacking downforce and it showed.