Chinese Grand Prix 2014, Shanghai - Race 4/19

Great lap from Hamilton. Love it.

The Ricciardo vs Vettel show is certainly delivering too. It's a pity he was robbed of points in Australia by an arrogant decision from his team but he's been delivering far more than I expected of him while Vettel is showing a bucket of fragility.
 
IMHO, the mark of a great driver is one who can drive around problems with a less-than-great car. Schumacher could do it, so can Alonso and I think Hamilton has that ability too.

Not convinced Alonso belongs in that list. But Schumacher was the best at working with a car that wasn't perfect.

I don't think Vettel does. He's great if he has a great car, but if there are issues he's not good at adjusting his driving to maximise what he has and often just bitches and moans about it.

Same bucket that Button seems to sit in. With a great car they are brilliant, but anything less and they struggle.

I do think the biggest issue for Vettel is the loss of downforce and the ability to floor the throttle early in the corners.
 
Reasonably, tbh it was always about 2014. What surprised me and most people was how well they did last year.

Didn't surprise me, I said he would beat Buttons tally and he did. Mclaren were a team on the slide with Titmarsh and have never built the best car successively since the late 80's. They won it back to back in 98/99 due to MS breaking a leg.

They needed a new engine partner with them as the focus, Hamilton should never have waited around to see what Honda might provide.

By the same token Button could have still been there now instead of moving to mclaren at the wrong time.
 
They won it back to back in 98/99 due to MS breaking a leg.

To be fair, it was only close with Irvine and Ferrari (who weren't immune from some stunning cockups themselves) because McLaren ballsed it up time after time (including Coulthard taking Hakkinen out, then being strategically humiliated in Austria), and at one point it looked like Frentzen would have gone level on points with both with two races to go but for his Jordan failing exiting the pits at the Nurburgring.

TLDR; McLaren, over the season, had the fastest car, but didn't half make it difficult for themselves.
 
Yes if a putz like irvine pushed them that close schumacher would have stopped them winning two on the trot. Which is my point, Mclaren is not the team to be at for consistency in any way.
 
Yes if a putz like irvine pushed them that close schumacher would have stopped them winning two on the trot. Which is my point, Mclaren is not the team to be at for consistency in any way.

Possibly, but heading into Silverstone, Hakkinen had 40 points to Schumacher's 32 and Irvine's 26. It's fair to say McLaren took their eye off the ball when Schumacher was injured, and the constant cockups therein suggests that.
 
No, not all. ;)

I made it quite clear at the time that it was obvious he knows something others don't. I was right, always am to be fair :p

He didn't really know anything anyone else couldn't see and was pointed out by someone around here, but ignored by most. While they could tell Hamilton some of their plans, if he decided to stay with Mclaren do you think they will have told him that much about what they are doing? I still think the fundamental reason Hamilton left was he lost faith in Mclaren and realised he could do no worse at Merc, but it was also public knowledge how why Merc weren't that competitive and why they most likely would be soon. Their restaffing and increased funding year on year was very well known and going with a works team was likely to offer a decent chance at a competitive car under new regs.

Merc were seriously under funded and under staffed after the Brawn lay offs. Merc were slowly and sensibly building up the right team over a period of several years. Last years improvement was in large part because the team was significantly stronger by last year. Unfortunately they drastically improved the car, but the base of that car was a tire eating monster and it made no sense to do a Mclaren style completely new car for last year, if they had done so I think they could have made last year's car much closer to RBR, but also take away resources and man power from this years car so wouldn't have been worth it.

Merc were building back from (i can't recall the actual figures so at a guess) 100mil a year team to a 300-400mil a year team again to be roughly on par with the big boys.
It really shouldn't have been a surprise that increased funding and staff, and often the right staff, led to a huge improvement last year and a truly brilliant car this year.
 
Not convinced Alonso belongs in that list. But Schumacher was the best at working with a car that wasn't perfect.

Really? I think alonso has shown countless times that he's able to work with poor cars. Hell the 2012 car was probably the 5th/6th best car on the grid yet he only just missed out on a world title.
 
So, people are writing off Vettel and reaching conclusions after just 3 races?
And even better - they seem to have completely forgotten about his exploits over the past 4 years. Apparently winning 4 titles in a row is easy.

And as for Hamilton - he is doing exactly what anybody would've expected. Rosberg was never a match for him and we are seeing that now. Well, actually we saw it last year.

What is surprising me is just how much faster Alonso is compared to Kimi. I thought that Kimi would be a lot closer to Alonso than what is transpiring. I never saw this coming.
 
Really? I think alonso has shown countless times that he's able to work with poor cars. Hell the 2012 car was probably the 5th/6th best car on the grid yet he only just missed out on a world title.

Indeed.
That was the year when McLaren and RBR had the best car.
So, technically, he had the 5th best car and beat the McLarens and Webber's RBR.
 
I agree with the points regarding Alonso. For me he's still the most complete driver on the grid, though I regard Hamilton as the "out and out fastest" driver.

I've never rated Vettel too highly... He's a very good driver, for sure, but not quite up there with Alonso and Hamilton for my money. His four world championships are more down to Adrian Newey than anything else.
 
So, people are writing off Vettel and reaching conclusions after just 3 races?
And even better - they seem to have completely forgotten about his exploits over the past 4 years. Apparently winning 4 titles in a row is easy.

I'm not writing Vettel off quite yet. While Merc undoubtedly have a clear and strong advantage, especially in the dry, it's not insurmountable. People are surprised that Ricciardo has the edge on Vettel at the moment, but Vettel hasn't been on the back foot this much in F1 before (not since Toro Rosso, when he wasn't expected to fight for wins).

While Ricciardo is currently drubbing Vettel in qualifying (usually one of Vettel's strengths), ultimately he probably only beat him in Bahrain because Vettel took a punt on tyres at the start and hoped for an early safety car, which worked against him with the late safety car. It's arguable Vettel's only chance to make points on the Mercs at the moment is to take chances on strategy, but he is to amount a late challenge, he can't afford to throw points away willy-nilly.

Whether Vettel can enter the fight might largely depends on whether Rosberg can continue to push Hamilton. Hamilton held him off at Bahrain when Rosberg had the better tyres, but people forget Rosberg was challenging Hamilton on equal tyres too. A run of Rosberg form at the start of the European season, similar to Webber usually had at Red Bull, would make things interesting. Hamilton will have a drop in form at some point (he's normally prone to at least one wobbly a season which he lets get to his head - usually Nicole-related it seems). Rosberg seems rattled at the moment, but if he can get his head into gear and not do a Barrichello 2009, then it could just let Vettel into the picture.

Ultimately, with all that said, it's down to Renault producing more power and how quickly it happens. Without them gaining on Mercedes, Red Bull have no chance, irrespective of how much they improve the car.
 
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