Is there such a thing as a rational audiophile?
As I said previously, on many occasions I have listened to, noticed no difference but not bought highly rated, hyped up components...
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Is there such a thing as a rational audiophile?
As I said previously, on many occasions I have listened to, noticed no difference but not bought highly rated, hyped up components...
Probably not no.
Yeah, no surprises there. The same stuff is done over amps too, all sorts of nonsense about the hugely varying sounds of amps, and the reality is, they don't sound all that different.
It's just the expensive ones can drive larger more powerful speakers at higher volumes, which is something people often mistake for better sound quality.
This is where issues get crossed in terms and description. Ignoring cost as most pricing is done by what a company can feel they can claim and not linked to the material cost to make the part.
Any reasonable cable will work, as in pass a current. With two different constructed cables with differing LCR values, it maybe possible that an audible difference is heard, better would be subjective, both could be capable of carrying the required current etc.
You could conclude one cable was "transparent" the other modified the signal, but there is nothing to say the transparent one would be preferred when listen to it. The cable that causes a small shift in the sound or balance of higher frequencies might be make the music more enjoyable....
I might have a dull sounding room with loads of soft furnishing for example, using a cable that increased the higher frequencies slightly would be preferable to one that did nothing.
Point is try before you buy, choose what works for your set up and don't judge by cost as that came from the marketing department. If two items sound the same, buy the cheaper one !!!
Placebo is another interesting issue....so just for point of discussion try this theory for size....
There was an interesting documentary some months back on TV.
They did the normal medical trial with some pills. Where those not knowing took a placebo pill and still showed signs of improvement.
They went further.... they then told half the group with the placebo pill what they had been taking.... but asked them to continue taking the placebo pill anyway. The other half stopped.
Even though the group knew they weren't taking any more than fake pills they continued to improve, those that stopped regressed.
The reason given was the belief and act of taking the pill still caused the brain to send the same trigger to release the chemicals that help the body self heal.
Of cause the potential saving to health service could be huge
Another interesting item I believe was on the radio, that scientists still don't understand that well how we hear. They know the basic mechanics, but what goes on in the brain wasn't understood. Other than some chemicals get released. The trigger and stimulus wasn't understood, how certain sounds gave change to moods, emotions and reactions, or even why....
So if you link the placebo effect to one of listening to music.....
What happens when we listen to music, it causes chemicals reactions in the brain to effect our mood and emotions. That isn't the same as lab instrument detecting changes in wave form or frequency response.
If we take a placebo pill we can have release of chemicals in the brain...
So if you change a part in the Hi-Fi system in some ways the effect to the listener can be exactly the same, doesn't matter if the sound actually changed or the listen was just believing it should, the brain will still release those extra chemicals making you "hear" and "feel" that improvement and heightened enjoyment. Either way, the listener gets an "upgrade". The brain was tricked into the same response or reaction. But it was the same reaction.
Remember we listen to music for the emotional satisfaction, not the measurement of sound.... same as we eat attractive looking food, not from little silver foil packets like astronauts, because one is more enjoyable than the other despite what what we might be told that they both contain the same measured nutritiousness.
Just looking at the bigger picture, it's about enjoying time listening to music and how the enjoyment can be increased.
None of the above suggests we should buy expensive magic cables by the way
Cables don't extenuate specific frequencies though, they just don't.
Also, you're taking it out of context when you say "scientists don't understand how we hear".
The way we respond to what we hear is not related to the differences audio cables make.
Whilst you're not suggesting people buy expensive cables, you are still advocating them, saying that they're okay if they make people happy.
Also, you're taking it out of context when you say "scientists don't understand how we hear".
The way we respond to what we hear is not related to the differences audio cables make.
Whilst you're not suggesting people buy expensive cables, you are still advocating them, saying that they're okay if they make people happy.
In your opinion
True we shouldn't do anything that makes us happy, better to be bunch of sad keyboard jockeys !
Not in my opinion, no. There is absolutely nothing to back these claims up.
Also, doing things because they make your happy is a cop out, that part is irrelevant, people are still being scammed.
In addition to that, why do you put a space before question and exclamation marks?
Also, doing things because they make your happy is a cop out, that part is irrelevant, people are still being scammed.
In addition to that, why do you put a space before question and exclamation marks?
Soldato
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But the evidence is at present that an audible difference will not be heard. If a company made a high end cable that at least sounded different from standard 16AWG copper cable at about £1/m then it would be a starting point. Of course, they would have to modify the cable quite dramatically to do this, and in doing so, worsen the sound. In effect, buying a cable that "increased the high frequencies" would make less sense than adding some kind of parametric EQ in your system - the latter would have course be laughed at by any "serious" audiophile.
People do judge by cost. Unless they don't know it in advance. If they think they are able to rise above placebo/confirmation bias etc. then they are very ignorant.
Placebo is another interesting issue....so just for point of discussion try this theory for size....
There was an interesting documentary some months back on TV.
They did the normal medical trial with some pills. Where those not knowing took a placebo pill and still showed signs of improvement.
They went further.... they then told half the group with the placebo pill what they had been taking.... but asked them to continue taking the placebo pill anyway. The other half stopped.
Even though the group knew they weren't taking any more than fake pills they continued to improve, those that stopped regressed.
The reason given was the belief and act of taking the pill still caused the brain to send the same trigger to release the chemicals that help the body self heal.
Of cause the potential saving to health service could be huge
Yes, and raises huge ethical problems
Another interesting item I believe was on the radio, that scientists still don't understand that well how we hear. They know the basic mechanics, but what goes on in the brain wasn't understood. Other than some chemicals get released. The trigger and stimulus wasn't understood, how certain sounds gave change to moods, emotions and reactions, or even why....
So if you link the placebo effect to one of listening to music.....
What happens when we listen to music, it causes chemicals reactions in the brain to effect our mood and emotions. That isn't the same as lab instrument detecting changes in wave form or frequency response.
If we take a placebo pill we can have release of chemicals in the brain...
So if you change a part in the Hi-Fi system in some ways the effect to the listener can be exactly the same, doesn't matter if the sound actually changed or the listen was just believing it should, the brain will still release those extra chemicals making you "hear" and "feel" that improvement and heightened enjoyment. Either way, the listener gets an "upgrade". The brain was tricked into the same response or reaction. But it was the same reaction.
Remember we listen to music for the emotional satisfaction, not the measurement of sound.... same as we eat attractive looking food, not from little silver foil packets like astronauts, because one is more enjoyable than the other despite what what we might be told that they both contain the same measured nutritiousness.
Just looking at the bigger picture, it's about enjoying time listening to music and how the enjoyment can be increased.
None of the above suggests we should buy expensive magic cables by the way
Well, what you seem to be saying is "The placebo effect happens in hi-fi". I'm not really sure what your point is really. Earlier on, I was saying this was about making the best decisions when buying something. Anything you add is going to have a placebo effect, it's the same with medicine. I suppose you might argue that by buying a more expensive cable the placebo effect is going to be better than buying a cheaper one, but we don't really know that, because nobody has looked into it and what might seem intuitive is not always the case.
Either way, I don't think this changes the fact that people are better off making purchasing decisions knowing what will make a difference to the hi-fi and what won't. Unless you've got £100Ks to spend on your system, you're always going to be at some point saying "shall i spend x on a set of speakers, y on an amp and z on cables". The advice given out by numerous hi-fi experts over the years has been flat out wrong based upon all the available evidence, and that really should change.
In your opinion
True we shouldn't do anything that makes us happy, better to be bunch of sad keyboard jockeys !
Or spend the money on something that's worth the money in the first place. Why are you being so defensive?
Soldato
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did someone here buy these? sorry cba to read whole thread.
Soldato
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Don't you lot get bored having the same old argument over and over?
There is no link between cost and quality.
The old saying of "you get what you pay for" is not a 100% accurate statement.
Yes I am a rational audiophile, Xonar STX, (ebay) HIFIMAN HE400, (ebay) Modded pads, Parametric EQ, stock cables = £300 total spent, No money wasted, best possible audio quality, rational audiophile.
For sure yes, but thought I'd stop by for a change and stir the pot a bit
.... mission accomplished..... Anyway I don't have a "magic" system, more a Klimax system .......... dives for cover.Loads of new vinyl to listen too, must dash.......
Soldato
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For sure yes, but thought I'd stop by for a change and stir the pot a bit
Loads of new vinyl to listen too, must dash.......
A climax system? Well if it does that I might be tempted to splurge some cash (pun intended)
Yes I had a standard HDMI cable on my TV, upgraded to one of those £10,000 HDMI cables, and I must say the picture quality is through the roof now, definitely a good investment. Contrast, black levels, motion, everything is just so much better with this cable. It has taken my viewing enjoyment to an entirely different level.