Christian Values

BowdonUK said:
As I said in the first line it depends on what type of pleasure.

Your second line was very strange.
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And I said the majority of people are seeking pleasure.
You still haven't answered the basic and burning question. Allow me to steer you...
What if my drive, my pleasure in life is to help the homeless to the point of dereliction of my family's needs because I get a kick from it, a pleasure; what type of pleasure is that?

What are these "types" these classifications of pleasure?
 
Teh_Next said:
What if my drive, my pleasure in life is to help the homeless to the point of dereliction of my family's needs because I get a kick from it, a pleasure; what type of pleasure is that?
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In that instance it would be a negative obsession in my opinion. I believe we should help ourselves to at least attain a standard living before helping others.

give a man a fish and you feed him for a day;
teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
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What is the standard of living you suggest?

BowdonUK said:
give a man a fish and you feed him for a day;
teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime
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Very profound... :rolleyes:

Sounds very material. I was more thinking along the lines of a dereliction of emotional needs...
 
something daft already!! said:
Another great Christian value is taken from Sodom and Gomorrah. God gets rather cross with man because he doesn't like homosexuals. He then sends a couple of his henchmen to rape and kill everyone. Tells his mate Lot to leg it and not look back but his wife does look back so he turns her to stone.
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That's not how it went down at all!?!?!!:confused:
 
chris.tarry85 said:
Why do people think of these are Christian values? Isn't it just called not being a ****?

****'s come in all colours, shapes, sizes and religions..
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This, 100% this, I've never needed a religious text to tell me not to be a **** and I'm surprised that you need to be threaten with "Hell" just to make people want to do the right thing, shouldn't "Don't be a **** to people" just be automatically taught by your parents?

Sadly I feel that we now live in a time where being "nice", showing kindness and thinking of others is seen by an increasing number of people as being "weak" and something thats a negative. While that sentiment has always been there it "feels" like it's becoming more and more "the Norm" in the half dozen or so places around the country that I've lived (so not specific to an area).
 
ianh said:
This, 100% this, I've never needed a religious text to tell me not to be a **** and I'm surprised that you need to be threaten with "Hell" just to make people want to do the right thing, shouldn't "Don't be a **** to people" just be automatically taught by your parents?

Sadly I feel that we now live in a time where being "nice", showing kindness and thinking of others is seen by an increasing number of people as being "weak" and something thats a negative. While that sentiment has always been there it "feels" like it's becoming more and more "the Norm" in the half dozen or so places around the country that I've lived (so not specific to an area).
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Could this change in attitudes coincide with the decline of the Christian church? There is a definite correlation betteeen the loss of the feeling of community, the increase in isolation and loneliness and the decline of the church. The trouble is when we've thrown out the God bit we've thrown out all the good bits like the community where everyone knew each other so people had a connection and helped each other out etc. Call them what you like but core christian values make fotva better community and when we lost religion we lost these as well somehow!
 
Teh_Next said:
Thank you.
I just disagree with you then. It's a simple part of growing up for a lot of folks. Almost a right of passage in lot's of situations.
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I think growing out of hedonism is probably a right of passage, I agree, but I do wonder whether a lack of religious values has inadvertently increased hedonistic tendencies.

I also think that the proliferation of social media and Facebook has decreased mindfulness (i.e. living in the present) which also focuses the mind on anywhere but ‘now’ and therefore encourages hedonism.
 
a1ex2001 said:
Could this change in attitudes coincide with the decline of the Christian church? There is a definite correlation betteeen the loss of the feeling of community, the increase in isolation and loneliness and the decline of the church. The trouble is when we've thrown out the God bit we've thrown out all the good bits like the community where everyone knew each other so people had a connection and helped each other out etc. Call them what you like but core christian values make fotva better community and when we lost religion we lost these as well somehow!
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Welp, maybe if they didn't touch up little boys for centuries they'd have a leg to stand on. It's really hard to be an "authority" on something if you've largely abused it, if the Church was a country, it'd have been destroyed long ago.
 
Society is failing because of social media.
People cannot differentiate between online and reality.
What I mean is everyone is starting to treat each other like asses because they expect no real recourse.
Instant gratification like no generation b4.
 
Efour said:
Society is failing because of social media.
People cannot differentiate between online and reality.
What I mean is everyone is starting to treat each other like asses because they expect no real recourse.
Instant gratification like no generation b4.
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It’s not just social media, it’s everything coming together at once, like the perfect storm for the decline of society. I think it will get far worse in the near future before we hit the bottom and sort it out.
 
a1ex2001 said:
Could this change in attitudes coincide with the decline of the Christian church?
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As per my reply, I believe that your "core values", for the vast majority, come from your parents as you grow up - Do something wrong and your parents punish you and it goes back like that for generation to generation and my parents (and those of my friends) were non-religious and yet I still have the same "core values" that Christians are told to have by a church. So if I don't have my core values because a church told me to have them but because my non-religious parents (and theirs before them) ingrained them in me as a child then that means I believe that wanting to be "good" is a universal truth separate from religion.

I think it is that a lot of this (but not all) comes down to a an increasing lack of so many (but not all by) modern parents willing to pass on "how to be a good person" or discipline their kids when they don't because they prefer to be "friends" rather than "parents". However thats just an opinion and being a **** will always be the life of some people, they will never change and some kids will always be naughty no matter the discipline involved but those are usually the outliers and the vast majority can have their "learned behaviour" changed so while you maybe a "bad" kid you can change and grow to be a "good" person in time.

Again, those are just my feelings on this, I could be right or wrong or in-between but I thought it was an interesting topic to discuss.
 
There are definitely a huge % of the global population who, in their current physical, mental, financial etc state, shouldn't exist, let alone breed. Maybe being means tested and/or having a license to have children might make sense. But then it all gets a bit 1984. Obviously this only really applies to the developed world.
 
I don't think Christianity has anything to do with it. What we see today is simply poor human nature, and a condition that society has created.
The difference between right and wrong, being kind to others or not and treating them well or not, should not need to be implied by a religion.
 
Yes. 'We' have largely abandoned a system that provided meaning and purpose, but haven't (collectively) replaced it with anything substantial, creating a rot. This was predicted as far back as 1882 by thinkers like Nietzsche and more recently commented on by people like Douglas Murray in The Strange Death of Europe.
 
Teh_Next said:
What is the standard of living you suggest?
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Teh_Next said:
Sounds very material. I was more thinking along the lines of a dereliction of emotional needs...
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I once knew this family via a friend who worked as a nanny for them. The parents both worked and they had 3 kids (they all were around 11 or 12 years old).

When the friend first started working there she asked if a couple of us could help her clear up the main kids room as there was too much junk around for one person. So I went around there and the family had turned the basement in to a kids play area.

So I walked down the stairs in to the basement. It was a quite a big room, probably about the size of a whole floor plan of the average house. I was about to step on to the floor when I stopped and noticed all the floor was covered in broken toys. They even had 2 pinball machines there, flat screen tv's and the then new ps4 that had come out (I heard a few days later that got broke). The parents bought their kids everything. But was never around to see them. The kids seem to be acting up for attention and breaking their toys. A few weeks later the friend found some illegal drugs that the parents had been taking too.

The parents were self absorbed and the kids suffered. That would be an example of bad parenting and an ego-centric pleasure seeking attitude. They didnt invest emotionally in to the people that they should have. They just liked the money, the power and their drugs. It was sad as the friend said the kids seemed like good people but they also would be messed up in the head as they didn't value the toys they had been given.
 
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