Civic Type R, the proper one...

merlin said:
I don't see the petrol versions revving to 8,000 rpm therefore I suspect there's little in it standard to standard? Remap the diesel and as much as it pains me to say it I'd expect it to leave the petrol wanting.
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Say what now? Never thought I'd hear you say something like that...

I dont want to sound like I'm talking down to you, but you seem to be placing a lot of importance in the extra economy of the diesel versions, but given what you've posted previously about your approach to acquiring a workhorse, have you actually done the numbers properly?

How many miles are you going to be doing? Do you have a fuel card?
 
Lad at work has a 335D and it really is a truly awesome machine, looks boring as hell in SE guise, but bloody hell does it shift, the torque is phenominal, and the modding potential is pretty good.

The only down side are the brakes, they really dont seem upto the job.
 
I'm being BMW specific here remember and allow me to say that the gap when it comes to BMW between their petrol and diesel ranges is virtually non existent.

Perhaps with Audi or Merc or Ford there's a noticable drop in performance when you take the Diesel option, but imho you don't get that drop with BMW, they know how to put a good diesel engine together, they don't die at 4,000rpm for a start.

I'm fully aware of the shortfalls versus a good petrol engine, but thing is - in this instance (320i versus 320D and 325i versus 325D) the petrol equivalents are imho not as good/no better. Then as explained - remap and there's a clear winner.

Still not sure whether I'll be doing big miles or not. If I am - Derv, if I'm not - petrol. Will know soon.
 
In the more mundane end of the market, Diesels are the only engines worth having.The equivalent petrols are aweful.

What do you do out of interest dude?
 
wohoo said:
In the more mundane end of the market, Diesels are the only engines worth having.The equivalent petrols are aweful.

What do you do out of interest dude?
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Well that's the thing - this is indeed the ZZZZzzzz end of the market - it's a workhorse that I want to be half way a decent drive as it's the only car I'll have time for, I'm trying to kill two birds with one stone.

Barring the posh title etc I'm a commercial insurance broker.
 
merlin said:
I'm being BMW specific here remember and allow me to say that the gap when it comes to BMW between their petrol and diesel ranges is virtually non existent.

Perhaps with Audi or Merc or Ford there's a noticable drop in performance when you take the Diesel option, but imho you don't get that drop with BMW, they know how to put a good diesel engine together, they don't die at 4,000rpm for a start.

I'm fully aware of the shortfalls versus a good petrol engine, but thing is - in this instance (320i versus 320D and 325i versus 325D) the petrol equivalents are imho not as good/no better. Then as explained - remap and there's a clear winner.

Still not sure whether I'll be doing big miles or not. If I am - Derv, if I'm not - petrol. Will know soon.
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Define 'big miles'?
 
merlin said:
25k.
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The 325i is a grand cheaper than the 325d, but is 1% higher in CO2's.

The 325i is listed at 40mpg combined, while the 325d is listed at 50mpg combined.

Fuel wise, taking a 90p litre of petrol and a litre 100p of diesel, at 25k, the 325i is £25 more expensive per month to fuel than the 325d.
 
Yours sums are ninja but my concern is that real world the 325i will drink like Gazza. :p

Ok, fair point on the economy but there's still the issue of performance after a map.
 
I take it you've driven both petrol and diesel? As you well know I drive a 530d and a 530i and the 530i is just... so much more enjoyable to drive. I'd pick a 320d over a 320i because 4 pot petrol engines have never been BMW's finest hour but once you get to the 6 cylinder petrols, no diesels please, thanks.
 
merlin said:
Yours sums are ninja but my concern is that real world the 325i will drink like Gazza. :p

Ok, fair point on the economy but there's still the issue of performance after a map.
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I only get 5-6mpg more out of the 530d than I did out of my 330i. Different generation of engines obviously, but the rough comparison is fair.

40mpg out of a 6-pot petrol is no more ambitious than 50mpg is out of a 6-pot diesel imo...

The BMW diesel engines are good, so I take your point, but so are the petrols (272PS, 40mpg!) but the diesel is still 20hp down on the petrol, and while a map would sort that out, IIRC you made an extra ~15bhp out of mapping your M54 330Ci? To compare apples with apples you should look at mapped petrol versions. The 325i is also a detuned 3.0.

In fairness, the gap is bigger between the E46 330Ci@231hp and the E39 530d@184hp, but tbh, balls to the numbers. I'm no motoring journalist, but I do know that that needle on the right buzzes around a lot slower on the diesel than it did on the petrol. I dont know if that's throttle response or just a characteristic of the heavier diesel engine(?), but as someone who does similar mileage to you, I know which I prefer, and I can't understand why anyone who would look twice at an FN2, let alone an FD2, would go weak at the knees at the thought of a mapped diesel.

It's your money and your choice, I just don't want to see someone who enjoys driving saddled with a diesel again because the numbers were too boring to work out... :)
 
[TW]Fox;13671473 said:
I take it you've driven both petrol and diesel? As you well know I drive a 530d and a 530i and the 530i is just... so much more enjoyable to drive. I'd pick a 320d over a 320i because 4 pot petrol engines have never been BMW's finest hour but once you get to the 6 cylinder petrols, no diesels please, thanks.
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I picked a 330d over a 330i. Different horses and all that...
 
NickXX said:
I picked a 330d over a 330i. Different horses and all that...
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To this day I don't really understand why you did that, especially as you've averaged less than 10k a year in it :p I think the 330i you drive was an auto, which would have put me off it as well IIRC?

I think its important to point out that there is nothing wrong with a 6 cylinder BMW diesel. Infact, there is very much RIGHT with a BMW 6 cylinder diesel. They are amongst the finest engines of their type you will find anywhere. They are exceptionally good engines. Unfortunately, though, BMW are also just as good at making excellent 6 cylinder petrol engines as well..
 
Kingy, I'll talk to my boss tomorrow and then subject to him being happy I'll call the dealer about that 325i M Sport you posted.
 
[TW]Fox;13671526 said:
To this day I don't really understand why you did that, especially as you've averaged less than 10k a year in it :p I think the 330i you drive was an auto, which would have put me off it as well IIRC?

I think its important to point out that there is nothing wrong with a 6 cylinder BMW diesel. Infact, there is very much RIGHT with a BMW 6 cylinder diesel. They are amongst the finest engines of their type you will find anywhere. They are exceptionally good engines. Unfortunately, though, BMW are also just as good at making excellent 6 cylinder petrol engines as well..
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It was never about economy, surely I've always said this :confused:?

The 530i I drove was an auto, the 330i I drove was a manual. Both the 530i and 330i felt slower and the 330d was the better drive. In standard form, there is shed loads more backside oomph from the 330d and even more when remapped. I know your Dad's one is a duff example, but surely you must be able to understand that?
 
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