Concrete driveway advice (pics included)

[Gredawarha]

Yep it's at the rear of the property.

In that case there is no requirement for your hard surface to be porous.

At least that is one less thing to worry about!

 

[LeeUK]

your estimate is a little high imo

20m2 @ 100mm deep will take 2 cubic metres of concrete £300 to £350 ish for proper concrete, not the cheaper concrete used for backing up kerbs etc...
(picture a 1m x 1m cube, 100mm goes 10 times to the height, so 1 cubic metre at 100mm deep = 10m2, at 50mm deep you will get 20m2)

Old conrete is recycled, so only labour and diesel to drive to the tip
actually recycled concrete is often used a hardcore, its called crushed concrete

whole job will easily cost less than £400 (i am being generous here ((if done correctly))

At present 1 cubic metre of concrete is more than enough for whats dug out

All its cost the builder so far is labour and about £20 diesel and any hardcore he probaly bought

Well it's just been 2 guys, the guy who came to quote - the gaffer and another chap. Tiny pile of yellow dolomite and the metal rebar grid which is actually quite thin, and about 3 hours work if that.

 

[Gredawarha]

thanks
that at least answers the whats underneath it part
and explains why it soaked in so fast
its certainly interesting
and can see why on new builds/developements should be implemented
obviously the extra cost can be put onto sale prices
doubt its going to be of much use to the op though
and as his patch is to the rear not front of the principal part of the house
i assume the afore mentioned regulation may not apply?
in his example would a gap around the edge with a french drain stlye soakaway suffice?
just out of curiosity as obviously his cowboys cant do anything properly

edit i type very slowly so you probably already answered
the regulation bit by the time i finished typing

If the french drain provides a run off to porous land within the curtilage of the dwelling and does not for example simply lead to a drain then yes it is sufficient. The theory behind it is similar to the development site I described before the water runs off the hard surface and into the porous garden. Where in time it slowly leads to the water table or local stream rather than exiting directly into the drains and overloading the system.

 

[Mcnumpty2323]

If the french drain provides a run off to porous land within the curtilage of the dwelling and does not for example simply lead to a drain then yes it is sufficient. The theory behind it is similar to the development site I described before the water runs off the hard surface and into the porous garden. Where in time it slowly leads to the water table or local stream rather than exiting directly into the drains and overloading the system.

thanks again
doubt his cowboys will do it anyway
i just thought it would stop lot of water soaking into the brickwork too
assuming they put dpm at the side by the walls
always good to learn something new so thx for your input
hearing it from a professional is always useful

 

[LeeUK]

If the french drain provides a run off to porous land within the curtilage of the dwelling and does not for example simply lead to a drain then yes it is sufficient. The theory behind it is similar to the development site I described before the water runs off the hard surface and into the porous garden. Where in time it slowly leads to the water table or local stream rather than exiting directly into the drains and overloading the system.

The property is a 100 year old terrace house with a soft garden at the front and a concrete back yard. It would have always had a concrete or hard surface back yard since it was built and the back yard originally housed the outside toilet and coal house. Same with every other house in the street. Most houses in the street now have a variety of extensions built, garages, driveways, etc. All hard surface and no drain at the edge. Just their normal household drains for waste water and gutters from the roof.

Now because I have decided to replace some of the old knackered concrete like-for-like, I have to start putting in new drains in case I cause a flood?

 

[Gredawarha]

The property is a 100 year old terrace house with a soft garden at the front and a concrete back yard. It would have always had a concrete or hard surface back yard since it was built and the back yard originally housed the outside toilet and coal house. Same with every other house in the street. Most houses in the street now have a variety of extensions built, garages, driveways, etc. All hard surface and no drain at the edge. Just their normal household drains for waste water and gutters from the roof.

Now because I have decided to replace some of the old knackered concrete like-for-like, I have to start putting in new drains in case I cause a flood?

Well no, you don't because you have already said that the hard surface is at the rear of your property and therefore unlikely to be forward of the principal elevation.

If it were forward of the principal elevation then yes you would because the work is development and the permission granted by the legislation is clear that if you are building a new hard surface or

"(b)the replacement in whole or in part of such a surface."

Then you need to comply with the limitations and condition of the permission.

I appreciate that some people might find it frustrating and it is obviously an additional cost to the home owner, but these changes were brought in mitigate the harm from flooding when we have extreme rain

 

[Mcnumpty2323]

sorry i may have confused the issue there
asking about french drains as was just curious while we
had professionals present
if redoing the whole backyard instead of a patch
then french drains (basically a trench of gravel/pebbles/stones)
along the wall edges would probably be a reasonable idea
and pretty cheap to implement

 

[LeeUK]

Another weird thing is he keeps asking me when I'm back at work. Now I'm think that is because he wants me out the way so he can complete his bodge job without me seeing what he's doing.

 

[LeeUK]

your estimate is a little high imo

20m2 @ 100mm deep will take 2 cubic metres of concrete £300 to £350 ish for proper concrete, not the cheaper concrete used for backing up kerbs etc...
(picture a 1m x 1m cube, 100mm goes 10 times to the height, so 1 cubic metre at 100mm deep = 10m2, at 50mm deep you will get 20m2)

Old conrete is recycled, so only labour and diesel to drive to the tip
actually recycled concrete is often used a hardcore, its called crushed concrete

whole job will easily cost less than £400 (i am being generous here ((if done correctly))

At present 1 cubic metre of concrete is more than enough for whats dug out

All its cost the builder so far is labour and about £20 diesel and any hardcore he probaly bought

Basically instead of paying reputable tradesmen £1100 for a £1100 job, I'm paying cowboys £700 for a £400 tops job.

 

[LeeUK]

Oh and I've just had it confirmed that they are indeed travellers. Looked at the gaffers FB profile and he's at a funeral, the type traveller type have, over the top. Then while checking out the profile of the deceased and other tagged people, they all appear to come from Ireland.

 

[pingwing]

they all appear to come from Ireland.

You're knowingly getting a badly tarmaced drive?? Is a horse running though your local council estate?

 

[j.col]

Oh and I've just had it confirmed that they are indeed travellers. Looked at the gaffers FB profile and he's at a funeral, the type traveller type have, over the top. Then while checking out the profile of the deceased and other tagged people, they all appear to come from Ireland.

Be prepared for some aggro if you tell him to **** off, if he does just ring the police and say he is aggresive and you feel threatened.

Its upto you OP, how you are going to proceed
Either tell him you want 100mm of concrete (not including hardcore) as agreed and you will be checking the excavated depth, you will be present when they are pouring the concrete, and you want to see a receipt for the concrete to make sure its suitable for a driveway (and not the cheap stuff for backing up kerbs)
if he agrees to this i would let him finish it imo.
but be wary in case half way through pouring the concrete he doesnt come and ask you for extra money to complete the job, excuse like i underestimated the cost and need to add more money to finish the job (travellers call this bouncing a job)

if he disagrees then tell him you are not happy and you dont want him to finish the job, offer him £100 to cover his expenses and be firm but polite.
Threaten him with trading standards and/or police if he refuses to leave.
he wont want them involved as they will ask him for tax numbers/ vat numbers etc....

you are breaking no laws afaik as you are willing to pay for reaonable expenses while he is doing shoddy work.

 

[LeeUK]

Be prepared for some aggro if you tell him to **** off, if he does just ring the police and say he is aggresive and you feel threatened.

Its upto you OP, how you are going to proceed
Either tell him you want 100mm of concrete (not including hardcore) as agreed and you will be checking the excavated depth, you will be present when they are pouring the concrete, and you want to see a receipt for the concrete to make sure its suitable for a driveway (and not the cheap stuff for backing up kerbs)
if he agrees to this i would let him finish it imo.
but be wary in case half way through pouring the concrete he doesnt come and ask you for extra money to complete the job, excuse like i underestimated the cost and need to add more money to finish the job (travellers call this bouncing a job)

if he disagrees then tell him you are not happy and you dont want him to finish the job, offer him £100 to cover his expenses and be firm but polite.
Threaten him with trading standards and/or police if he refuses to leave.
he wont want them involved as they will ask him for tax numbers/ vat numbers etc....

you are breaking no laws afaik as you are willing to pay for reaonable expenses while he is doing shoddy work.

Thanks for the info. I'm going to make sure it's at the correct depth first and I've told him that the concrete is not coming until I've inspected the ground and happy with it.

He's getting no more money from me so if he tries to bounce the job half way through the pour then I'm quite willing to tell him to pack up and leave. Same if the rest of the dig out depth isn't correct. I've no problem paying fair expense to get rid of him if that is the case.

 

[Mcnumpty2323]

and to check the depth all over
couple of pins/sticks/canes etc and string/rope thats longer
than the diagonal distance of the plot
make sure 1 corners correct depth and put the pin there
push down till string is just touching the ground
mark them say 4 inches from the bottom
so you know both will be going in same depth
you can then leave the 1st pin in the corner
and pivot the other to measure any part of the plots depth
winding the string in/out as required
that sounded complicated lol
but its pretty simple you probably get what i mean

 

[LeeUK]

and to check the depth all over
couple of pins/sticks/canes etc and string/rope thats longer
than the diagonal distance of the plot
make sure 1 corners correct depth and put the pin there
push down till string is just touching the ground
mark them say 4 inches from the bottom
so you know both will be going in same depth
you can then leave the 1st pin in the corner
and pivot the other to measure any part of the plots depth
winding the string in/out as required
that sounded complicated lol
but its pretty simple you probably get what i mean

Cheers but there's eyesight in it that its no where near deep enough or level.

 

[Mcnumpty2323]

Cheers but there's eyesight in it that its no where near deep enough or level.

oh we can clearly see that from the photos lol
still handy to have the pins and string ready just in case
so if they do a bit of work and they shove it around a bit with a landscape rake
and say look its level/deep enough now

 

[LeeUK]

oh we can clearly see that from the photos lol
still handy to have the pins and string ready just in case
so if they do a bit of work and they shove it around a bit with a landscape rake
and say look its level/deep enough now

Yeah I know what you mean, they were trying that trick yesterday when they were here for like an hour.

 

[LeeUK]

And you guessed it! They didn't show up today and no concrete wagon either so obviously not booked.

 

[Hedge]

Just tell them not to bother and go elsewhere.

 

[thezappa]

I’d quit while you’re ‘ahead’. Appreciate the difficulty getting trades in but I’d happily wait if it meant getting a good job and at least you won’t have to deal with them if it were to go wrong in the future.