COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

[Werewolf]

Interesting that flu caused more deaths last winter than covid despite flu jabs being readily available yet nobody freaks out about flu...

For the majority of people flu would be much, much worse than covid too..

Last year's Flu was of a strain that the jabs didn't protect against, as the flu jabs use an older method of production that means they take a guess at the top 3 or 4 most likely strains then start making them about 6-9 months in advance.

And it was from memory a nastier strain of flu than normal on top of that.

People don't tend to worry as much about the flu because we've got a number of treatments for it, we've had jabs that have typically worked for decades (and we've become somewhat complacent because of that), and the flu doesn't do multiple organ damage (IIRC some of the newer covid research is saying covid can not only directly damage all sorts of organs, but major blood vessels).

 

[cheesefest]

Certain departments and wards at Leicester hospitals - patients will be required to wear masks.

On plane home today, saw about 6 people wearing masks. One woman took hers off as soon as the seatbelt light went off and put it back on when light went back on. WTF? She was sitting on a seat on the other side of the aisle to use.

 

[Mr Jack]

On plane home today, saw about 6 people wearing masks. One woman took hers off as soon as the seatbelt light went off and put it back on when light went back on. WTF?

You get almost all of the benefit of masking just by wearing a mask during embarking and disembarking, whilst minimising the discomfort and inconvenience.

 

[Rroff]

Interesting that flu caused more deaths last winter than covid despite flu jabs being readily available yet nobody freaks out about flu...

For the majority of people flu would be much, much worse than covid too..

With flu or where influenza was the underlying cause of death?

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Certain departments and wards at Leicester hospitals - patients will be required to wear masks.

At Stoke we started 2 weeks ago.

 

[Rroff]

And it was from memory a nastier strain of flu than normal on top of that.

The COVID lockdowns completely stalled several flu variants in circulation which they'd prepared for, resulting in different strains taking over, not sure what has happened with that more recently.

EDIT: Report for 2022/23 season says the flu vaccine was well matched for strains that season.

 

[MissChief]

Picked my parents up from the airport on Wednesday after they’d been to Barcelona and the Pyrenees. Mum was coughing up a storm and tested positive on Thursday morning. Friday afternoon I started to get a scratchy throat and sure enough now I have it too. The second time. Headaches are bad but not feeling so properly wasted as I was in 2020. Just want it to go away!

 

[cheesefest]

Last year's Flu was of a strain that the jabs didn't protect against, as the flu jabs use an older method of production that means they take a guess at the top 3 or 4 most likely strains then start making them about 6-9 months in advance.

And it was from memory a nastier strain of flu than normal on top of that.

People don't tend to worry as much about the flu because we've got a number of treatments for it, we've had jabs that have typically worked for decades (and we've become somewhat complacent because of that), and the flu doesn't do multiple organ damage (IIRC some of the newer covid research is saying covid can not only directly damage all sorts of organs, but major blood vessels).

You hear people say “I’m not getting the flu jab as makes me ill”. Obviously not listened to the nurse/pharmacist and read the blurb saying it takes 2-3 weeks for it to work

 

[Werewolf]

You hear people say “I’m not getting the flu jab as makes me ill”. Obviously not listened to the nurse/pharmacist and read the blurb saying it takes 2-3 weeks for it to work

Or the whole difference between it potentially making you feel a little under the weather for a day and you ending up struggling to get out of bed.

The flu I had last year was one of the worst illnesses I've had that I can remember for the immediate effects, it floored me (literally at times), and I got it the lightest out of the house.

 

[Rroff]

So for the 2022/23 flu season there was ~14,500 deaths associated with flu of which ~1000 (preliminary) it was the underlying cause of death, can't find figures for where it was the only cause of death but typically for those numbers it would be about 12.6. During the same period there was ~10,500 COVID deaths of which ~7300 it was the underlying cause of death and ~1155 there was no other cause of death.

I think that is a bit misleading though as from the start of 2023 there has been ~5000 flu associated deaths and ~27,000 COVID related deaths, in 2022 in total there were over 50K deaths where COVID was the underlying cause.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

You hear people say “I’m not getting the flu jab as makes me ill”. Obviously not listened to the nurse/pharmacist and read the blurb saying it takes 2-3 weeks for it to work

I've had zero reaction to all the flu vaccines I've had, nada, nothing. I can't say the same for covid

 

[cheesefest]

Or the whole difference between it potentially making you feel a little under the weather for a day and you ending up struggling to get out of bed.

The flu I had last year was one of the worst illnesses I've had that I can remember for the immediate effects, it floored me (literally at times), and I got it the lightest out of the house.

I always get my flu jab in September (had mine on 14/9) as 15 years ago i had awful flu like yours Oct/Nov. My GP practice texts me to book a flu jab in mid Nov - too late.

Got my covid booster booked tomorrow.

 

[Rroff]

Looking at all the COVID inquiry stuff, etc. I find it frustrating that:

So little attention is paid to the unwillingness to carry out/fund high quality studies early on/pre-emptively so as to understand better what we were dealing with, which could have made our COVID response fundamentally more efficient. How in general the response has alternated between or been divided between denial or panic rather than a proportional measured response.

How it seems to have been forgotten that there were the S and L variants in circulation early on and that most of the images of people on ventilators, etc. in places like Italy and the UK were due to a variant which lost out to alpha and only made up <20% of cases at its peak and was virtually extinct by the end of 2020.

What learning to live with a disease like this actually means rather than people's **** takes based on ignorance or what they want it to mean for their own purposes with disregard as to the potential consequences.

So much has become a political or agenda lead circus, rather than better understand and improve on things in the future.

We've largely got away with it with this one, but lessons haven't been learnt and if the "big one" comes along we are truly screwed, possibly doubly so due to general pandemic fatigue.

 

[cheesefest]

Looking at all the COVID inquiry stuff, etc. I find it frustrating that:

So little attention is paid to the unwillingness to carry out/fund high quality studies early on/pre-emptively so as to understand better what we were dealing with, which could have made our COVID response fundamentally more efficient. How in general the response has alternated between or been divided between denial or panic rather than a proportional measured response.

How it seems to have been forgotten that there were the S and L variants in circulation early on and that most of the images of people on ventilators, etc. in places like Italy and the UK were due to a variant which lost out to alpha and only made up <20% of cases at its peak and was virtually extinct by the end of 2020.

What learning to live with a disease like this actually means rather than people's **** takes based on ignorance or what they want it to mean for their own purposes with disregard as to the potential consequences.

So much has become a political or agenda lead circus, rather than better understand and improve on things in the future.

We've largely got away with it with this one, but lessons haven't been learnt and if the "big one" comes along we are truly screwed, possibly doubly so due to general pandemic fatigue.

Covid lockdown benefits were ‘drop in the bucket’ compared to costs, study says

Johns Hopkins University study casts doubt on policy’s effectiveness

www.independent.co.uk

According to studies, just 1,700 lives were saved from the spring 2020 lockdown. Guessing from those 1,700 - at least a quarter have died since from old age, cancer and other long term immune suppressed conditions/illnesses. Cost the govt c£350bn during the pandemic.

 

[Rroff]

Covid lockdown benefits were ‘drop in the bucket’ compared to costs, study says

Johns Hopkins University study casts doubt on policy’s effectiveness

www.independent.co.uk

According to studies, just 1,700 lives were saved from the spring 2020 lockdown. Guessing from those 1,700 - at least a quarter have died since from old age, cancer and other long term immune suppressed conditions/illnesses. Cost the govt c£350bn during the pandemic.

Something a lot of these studies seem to miss is the consequences of not slowing the disease, many of those who died were going to die anyway but a lot more could have died which were preventable as health services were under higher strain let alone the consequences of a full collapse of health services. My local district hospital came close to the brink with staff attrition due to the pressure (and getting COVID themselves) as well as using up at peak 90% of their capacity for dealing with this kind of disease.

Very few countries didn't employ some degree or form of lockdown with varying levels of optimisation, those that didn't generally had unique factors which allowed them to get away with it like populations which live relatively isolated lives anyway. Even in Sweden localised lockdowns became necessary in some areas where there was hotspots of outbreaks - but they also enacted some measures we were reluctant to like closing universities and high schools - which fuelled outbreaks at certain points when they went back.

 

[MissChief]

Covid lockdown benefits were ‘drop in the bucket’ compared to costs, study says

Johns Hopkins University study casts doubt on policy’s effectiveness

www.independent.co.uk

According to studies, just 1,700 lives were saved from the spring 2020 lockdown. Guessing from those 1,700 - at least a quarter have died since from old age, cancer and other long term immune suppressed conditions/illnesses. Cost the govt c£350bn during the pandemic.

How many more would have died without the lock down? I suspect tens of thousands, maybe even 6 figures.

 

[n111ck]

Covid lockdown benefits were ‘drop in the bucket’ compared to costs, study says

Johns Hopkins University study casts doubt on policy’s effectiveness

www.independent.co.uk

According to studies, just 1,700 lives were saved from the spring 2020 lockdown. Guessing from those 1,700 - at least a quarter have died since from old age, cancer and other long term immune suppressed conditions/illnesses. Cost the govt c£350bn during the pandemic.

That's no real surprise - the government assumed that there would only be one short lockdown so the funding / furlough etc were too generous and the rules accordingly strict - then when it became clear there would be further lockdowns they couldn't wind back all the funding hence the ruinous cost.

Given the public are refusing to pay the credit card bill and given the continuing after effects of lockdown I suspect any further pandemics will see a much less expensive response..

 

[n111ck]

How many more would have died without the lock down? I suspect tens of thousands, maybe even 6 figures.

The interventions should have focussed on the vulnerable only.

 

[Hagar]

The only purpose of lockdown was to protect the NHS. For those short of memory, look up northern Italy and recall the numbers going through our hospitals in the early months of the pandemic.

Also recall a thousand deaths a day, mostly unpreventable but a sobering number

 

[Mr Jack]

According to studies, just 1,700 lives were saved from the spring 2020 lockdown. Guessing from those 1,700 - at least a quarter have died since from old age, cancer and other long term immune suppressed conditions/illnesses. Cost the govt c£350bn during the pandemic.

I assume this is same garbage John Hopkins study from a bunch of economists, without any input from epidemiologists, that has been kicking around in various forms for a while?