COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

[Rroff]

But in your scenario they shouldn't be going into work at all.

Hopefully the covid enquiry is not so infested in groupthink as this thread but I suspect not..

So trying to deflect away from the massive holes in your hopeless notion of just shielding the vulnerable then...

Those industries went through massive transformations during the pandemic aided by the rest of the population adhering to interventions so as to protect the vulnerable. That becomes impossible if the rest of the population just carries on as normal.

 

[n111ck]

So trying to deflect away from the massive holes in your hopeless notion of just shielding the vulnerable then...

That's exactly what you are doing.

At least try and come up with some credible scenarios - picking workers that were the least affected by lockdowns is just laughable.

 

[Rroff]

That's exactly what you are doing.

At least try and come up with some credible scenarios - picking workers that were the least affected by lockdowns is just laughable.

As per my edit above:

Those industries went through massive transformations during the pandemic aided by the rest of the population adhering to interventions so as to protect the vulnerable. That becomes impossible if the rest of the population just carries on as normal.

To claim those workers were least affected by lockdowns is utterly ridiculous.

 

[n111ck]

As per my edit above:



To claim those workers were least affected by lockdowns is utterly ridiculous.

So me having to queue up outside Waitrose, keep 6 feet away from others, walk one way and wear a face covering required the economy to shut down? Come off it...

 

[Rroff]

Lockdowns of course work if they are applied unilaterally. However, who is going to keep the powerstations going? Investigate crimes? Keep trains running? Keep food on the shelves? Clean the water? Collect the bins? Maintain infrastructure? Man A&E and medical centres? IF EVERYONE stayed at home for 2 weeks or so then sure, but reality is not like that.

In terms of stamping out a virus it is another thing again, but those lockdowns and other measures were also hugely disruptive on the circulation of colds and flu viruses so we can estimate it somewhat from seeing the impact on other similar viruses.

I work in a key industry (distribution) and we implemented a strict regime (not my doing it was company policy) - every inch of the building was 2m zoned, one way systems, areas roped off, strict limits in the offices, internal mask wearing, rotas adjusted to minimise overlap between employees and so that less people were in the building at any one time, etc. etc. and compared to nearby similar businesses which were more complacent it certainly seemed to work.

 

[Rroff]

So me having to queue up outside Waitrose, keep 6 feet away from others, walk one way and wear a face covering required the economy to shut down? Come off it...

I'm not even sure what your point is there, if you even have one. That is nothing compared to the measures most staff had to deal with, even in businesses which were more complacent as to protective measures.

 

[krooton]

In terms of stamping out a virus it is another thing again, but those lockdowns and other measures were also hugely disruptive on the circulation of colds and flu viruses so we can estimate it somewhat from seeing the impact on other similar viruses.

I work in a key industry (distribution) and we implemented a strict regime (not my doing it was company policy) - every inch of the building was 2m zoned, one way systems, areas roped off, strict limits in the offices, internal mask wearing, rotas adjusted to minimise overlap between employees and so that less people were in the building at any one time, etc. etc. and compared to nearby similar businesses which were more complacent it certainly seemed to work.

Not having a cold or any similar kind of infection for 2 straight years was pretty dope.

 

[Freefaller]

In terms of stamping out a virus it is another thing again, but those lockdowns and other measures were also hugely disruptive on the circulation of colds and flu viruses so we can estimate it somewhat from seeing the impact on other similar viruses.

I work in a key industry (distribution) and we implemented a strict regime (not my doing it was company policy) - every inch of the building was 2m zoned, one way systems, areas roped off, strict limits in the offices, internal mask wearing, rotas adjusted to minimise overlap between employees and so that less people were in the building at any one time, etc. etc. and compared to nearby similar businesses which were more complacent it certainly seemed to work.

But catching colds and things like that are also really important for building up immunity at least in children from what I've read. I think living in a completely sterile environment doesn't do anyone any good. That said I'm one of these annoying people that has never had so much as a cold (well possibly did... but never been ill).

However id does sound like your work implemented it well - that said it would be soul destroying to do that for ever.

 

[n111ck]

I'm not even sure what your point is there, if you even have one. That is nothing compared to the measures most staff had to deal with, even in businesses which were more complacent as to protective measures.

Which measures did they have to deal with that required the economy to be shut down? Your logic is flawed.. you said retail workers were a massive danger to the vulnerable yet they were the ones that had to carry on working throughout..

It seems like there were measures to keep sectors open and those measures could have been applied more widely..

 

[Rroff]

Not having a cold or any similar kind of infection for 2 straight years was pretty dope.

3 years for me was really nice, came to an end with a bang with COVID. I've not had a proper cold yet since 2019 IIRC though had some kind of very mild one in 22 which might have been COVID.

 

[Rroff]

Which measures did they have to deal with that required the economy to be shut down? Your logic is flawed.. you said retail workers were a massive danger to the vulnerable yet they were the ones that had to carry on working throughout..

It seems like there were measures to keep sectors open and those measures could have been applied more widely..

Those workers were aided in protecting the vulnerable, and able to continue critical operations, by everyone else abiding by measures and hence there being a lower prevalence in society of the disease. In combination with measures implemented by those industries. That can't work while those key workers on the one hand have to interact with people carrying on as normal, resulting in a higher exposure to the disease, while on the other hand also being around those most vulnerable.

Even things as simple as getting fuel for their car suddenly becomes a huge risk if everyone else is carrying on as normal.

 

[n111ck]

Those workers were aided in protecting the vulnerable, and able to continue critical operations, by everyone else abiding by measures and hence there being a lower prevalence in society of the disease. In combination with measures implemented by those industries. That can't work while those key workers on the one hand have to interact with people carrying on as normal, resulting in a higher exposure to the disease, while on the other hand also being around those most vulnerable.

Even things as simple as getting fuel for their car suddenly becomes a huge risk if everyone else is carrying on as normal.

So you are saying the measure themselves, such as face coverings, weren't particularly useful in preventing infection?

As for getting fuel, the idea that its easy to get covid outside was fully debunked so again another poor example.

 

[Rroff]

But catching colds and things like that are also really important for building up immunity at least in children from what I've read. I think living in a completely sterile environment doesn't do anyone any good. That said I'm one of these annoying people that has never had so much as a cold (well possibly did... but never been ill).

However id does sound like your work implemented it well - that said it would be soul destroying to do that for ever.

There would have to be some kind of end game, but also in the interim that is where actually learning to live with a disease comes in - implementing that properly alleviates the needs for things like lockdowns unless the situation is really bad.

 

[something daft already!!]

My company has implemented a WFH policy for the next week or so due to the large number of cases being reported. I'm happy about that, save me moving much.

 

[Rroff]

So you are saying the measure themselves, such as face coverings, weren't particularly useful in preventing infection?

Measures have realistic limits - basic face masks work when both parties and distancing is involved and so on. It doesn't take much thought to comprehend that breaks down when most people are trying to carry on as normal. (Along with the higher prevalence of the disease in society increasing the risk of coming into contact with someone infectious).

As for getting fuel, the idea that its easy to get covid outside was fully debunked so again another poor example.

That is all well and good if you can pay fully contactless at the pump and sanitise any touchpoints (albeit as it turns out only approx. 1 in 10+K cases are infections via surfaces transmission). In reality many fuel stations you have to go into an enclosed space to pay and so on.

 

[200sols]

Maybe as you are vulnerable but I'd take a 2 day sore throat over being bed ridden for a week...

The vast majority of flu cases are asymptomatic.

 

[n111ck]

Measures have realistic limits - basic face masks work when both parties and distancing is involved and so on. It doesn't take much thought to comprehend that breaks down when most people are trying to carry on as normal.



That is all well and good if you can pay fully contactless at the pump and sanitise any touchpoints (albeit as it turns out only approx. 1 in 10+K cases are infections via surfaces transmission). In reality many fuel stations you have to go into an enclosed space to pay and so on.

So lockdowns could have been avoided if social distancing etc was more strictly enforced? So lockdowns weren't the only solution..

What's the difference between a petrol station and a food shop? Why would measures work in one but not the other..

 

[RxR]

Nobody is talking about "long flu, Bro".

Fwiw - the ability to deal.with complexity improves up to about age 35.

 

[n111ck]

Nobody is talking about "long flu, Bro".

Fwiw - the ability to deal.with complexity improves up to about age 35.

Well that's not exactly true..

People also suffer 'long flu', study shows

Similar to Covid, other viruses can cause prolonged symptoms that take time to get over.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Rroff]

So lockdowns could have been avoided if social distancing etc was more strictly enforced? So lockdowns weren't the only solution..

What's the difference between a petrol station and a food shop? Why would measures work in one but not the other..

Another poor take on what I said... but there are loads of ways lockdowns, probably, could have been avoided - I spent a lot of time saying we should have been using other NPIs so as to avoid them early on in these threads. You either use lockdowns to attempt to stop a disease entirely or as a last resort.

No idea what you are saying with the second bit it is so far off anything I've been saying.