COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

MatteH Oxford said:
Which is statistically extremely unlikely. Less than 2,000 recorded deaths in the under 65's, without at least one serious existing comorbidity, according to the ONS CV19 statistics.
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Have you answered that correctly?
So you think that people who have been 'protected' are unlikely to die of flu or Covid?

Just to clarify I posted that protected people also die from Covid and flu.
 
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GIBURROWS said:
No I don't think you are a paid actor and no I'm not 5, I do however think you're most likely over paid and underworked.

The reason I asked my question was because even on the who website flu disappeared and covid took over at very, very similar numbers.
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Excess deaths were well above even a bad flu year (and there is a big difference in the number of people where COVID was an underlying cause of death vs flu). For circulation that is actually concerning if a new virus is putting up numbers, under conditions intended to try and prevent it, compared to a disease with higher established prevalence like flu.

Hagar said:
Both viruses, both kill lots of unprotected people. But different.
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Funny thing is some of these people got all funny about COVID deaths with/involving COVID vs contributing factor vs only cause, but don't apply the same distinction when it comes to flu or colds because it doesn't work with their opinion... when it comes to being the sole cause of death flu is 10 times lower numbers and colds so much lower it is hard to quantify - in the region of several thousand to 1.
 
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  • Deleted by ci_newman
  • Today at 07:48
  • Reason: Don't bypass the swear filter
/No problem. no ban and no grief

I thought about a response but tbh there is no point. People are entrenched with their views. You listen to the inquiry over the last few days and it all about "we should have locked down earlier. There is not a second thought that lockdowns were the wrong way to go. This inquiry is basically setting the ground work for any "public health emergency" in the near future.

I havent put a ! where an "i" should be this time so I will be able to say, if this thread is only going to be about people reporting winter virus symptoms it needs to die. You have major reporting from the people at the bleeding edge of covid policy , yet there is nothing but "my mate has a cold" or "fouir people are off work with ..."
 
Lean said:
  • Deleted by ci_newman
  • Today at 07:48
  • Reason: Don't bypass the swear filter
/No problem. no ban and no grief

I thought about a response but tbh there is no point. People are entrenched with their views. You listen to the inquiry over the last few days and it all about "we should have locked down earlier. There is not a second thought that lockdowns were the wrong way to go. This inquiry is basically setting the ground work for any "public health emergency" in the near future.

I havent put a ! where an "i" should be this time so I will be able to say, if this thread is only going to be about people reporting winter virus symptoms it needs to die. You have major reporting from the people at the bleeding edge of covid policy , yet there is nothing but "my mate has a cold" or "fouir people are off work with ..."
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Personally see lockdowns as a failure to manage properly up until a point you have no choice, but we were dealing with a novel virus with a high baseline for potential to be "the big one", sometimes it is a lose, lose situation where to not be cautious is idiotic - though I don't expect that to be recognised unless we experience it the hard way. These viruses are always 1-2 steps ahead of what we can see, especially when there is complacency and other roadblocks to carrying out high quality studies early enough to better understand what we are dealing with.

Same with these notions about learning to live with it and personal responsibility - most people have the complete wrong end of the stick as to what those really mean in a situation like this and too small minded to understand the importance of those factors in avoiding lockdowns.
 
What the past few pages have told me is that we're ****** in a future pandemic. People still can't fathom that preparing for the worst outcome and avoiding it is not a bad thing, vs being unprepared and getting hammered.

People take too many risks with their health and are the first to complain when it bites.
 
Tephnos said:
What the past few pages have told me is that we're ****** in a future pandemic. People still can't fathom that preparing for the worst outcome and avoiding it is not a bad thing, vs being unprepared and getting hammered.

People take too many risks with their health and are the first to complain when it bites.
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You have to remember that the majority of people are dumb ****s.
 
Rroff said:
Personally see lockdowns as a failure to manage properly up until a point you have no choice, but we were dealing with a novel virus with a high baseline for potential to be "the big one", sometimes it is a lose, lose situation where to not be cautious is idiotic - though I don't expect that to be recognised unless we experience it the hard way. These viruses are always 1-2 steps ahead of what we can see, especially when there is complacency and other roadblocks to carrying out high quality studies early enough to better understand what we are dealing with.

Same with these notions about learning to live with it and personal responsibility - most people have the complete wrong end of the stick as to what those really mean in a situation like this and too small minded to understand the importance of those factors in avoiding lockdowns.
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I can't imagine what it would have been like if Lockdowns hadn't happened.
At one point we had 345 Covid patients in the hospital and basically everything had stopped for them and we had so many staff off with Covid.
It was hell for them but I can't imagine the figures if everybody just roamed free at that time.
I posted before, I had one Nurse crying on the phone because she had laid out 9 bodies that morning and couldn't get them into the Mortuary.
We then had to empty the freezers in Pharmacy to put bodies in.
 
Tephnos said:
What the past few pages have told me is that we're ****** in a future pandemic. People still can't fathom that preparing for the worst outcome and avoiding it is not a bad thing, vs being unprepared and getting hammered.

People take too many risks with their health and are the first to complain when it bites.
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It's the same sort of reasoning that leads to people not bothering to have things like smoke alarms, or on a much more mundane thing, a couple of torches* and some candles because "nah we don't get powercuts" followed by "if need be i'll use my phone's torch function" (at which point i'm mentally shaking my head and rolling my eyes as that's relying utterly on a device that's used for other things and likely to be low on charge when you most need it).

Things like the lack of usable PPE is unforgivable, the idea of the "stockpile" we did have was that it should be usable in an emergency, not be out of date, rotting, and in such a disorganised state that the Army had to be drafted in because the private companies that had been running it had been doing so without any regard for the most basic tenets of warehousing and stock control, such as "you keep track of where you put it" and "you put it so that the oldest stuff gets rotated out first", and moving it from one leaky warehouse to another and just throwing it in any old how.


*I'll admit I may take it a bit far, I've got a bunch I keep charged up, but then they're all also used primarily for other things (such as using them if i go out to the garage at night, you only nearly step on a badger once before you start taking precautions to let it know you're coming, and see it).
 
Werewolf said:
It's the same sort of reasoning that leads to people not bothering to have things like smoke alarms, or on a much more mundane thing, a couple of torches* and some candles because "nah we don't get powercuts" followed by "if need be i'll use my phone's torch function" (at which point i'm mentally shaking my head and rolling my eyes as that's relying utterly on a device that's used for other things and likely to be low on charge when you most need it).
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At which point they'll be blaming the govt the local authority anything and everybody except themselves its always somebody elses fault/responsibility and never theirs.
 
Werewolf said:
It's the same sort of reasoning that leads to people not bothering to have things like smoke alarms, or on a much more mundane thing, a couple of torches* and some candles because "nah we don't get powercuts" followed by "if need be i'll use my phone's torch function" (at which point i'm mentally shaking my head and rolling my eyes as that's relying utterly on a device that's used for other things and likely to be low on charge when you most need it).

Things like the lack of usable PPE is unforgivable, the idea of the "stockpile" we did have was that it should be usable in an emergency, not be out of date, rotting, and in such a disorganised state that the Army had to be drafted in because the private companies that had been running it had been doing so without any regard for the most basic tenets of warehousing and stock control, such as "you keep track of where you put it" and "you put it so that the oldest stuff gets rotated out first", and moving it from one leaky warehouse to another and just throwing it in any old how.


*I'll admit I may take it a bit far, I've got a bunch I keep charged up, but then they're all also used primarily for other things (such as using them if i go out to the garage at night, you only nearly step on a badger once before you start taking precautions to let it know you're coming, and see it).
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We have had decades of excercises like "Excercise Cygnus", The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security "Clade X" and "Event 201" plus near misses with H1N1 and MERS but still failed terribly in many critical areas. Some lessons will be learned from this but I'm almost certain it will not be enough for something with a higher CFR. Look at where Covid-19 is on this list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_disease_case_fatality_rates - Now, imagine we dealt with something more menacing, the world would probably resemble an apocalyptic movie today.

As for a power back up. I bought a relatively cheap unit for power cuts, I paid £999 for it just under a year ago but you can get it for £799 now https://maxoak.uk/products/bluetti-eb240-portable-power-station - I was looking at more expensive units with a larger inverter as that's only 1000w but it's for emergency use only plus it's 2400Wh. Will run my fridge-freezer, modem, PC (browsing only), TV and a couple lights for close to 8 hours.
 
GIBURROWS said:
To me you all seem like donuts who have been lied to over a version of the flu and will help to erode all of our freedoms.
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You said the other day you weren't five, make that 4.
Honestly if you still believe after all this time that Covid isn't a thing then there's no hope for you.
OK if we go down your route of 'a version of the flu' do you accept it was a really bad version of the flu or do you think me and my colleagues are paid actors and told lies for the Government?
Oh and we're still telling lies about this 'version of the flu'.
 
J.D said:
Some lessons will be learned from this but I'm almost certain it will not be enough for something with a higher CFR. Look at where Covid-19 is on this list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_disease_case_fatality_rates - Now, imagine we dealt with something more menacing, the world would probably resemble an apocalyptic movie today.
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Something which seems to have been largely lost sight of with COVID - there was 2 variants early on in Wuhan (S and L), one of those was causing much more serious disease and is the source of many of those early scenes of lines of people on supplemental oxygen, etc. - I can't remember exact numbers now but it peaked at like 17% of cases in the UK or something and similar in Europe and was virtually extinct by December 2020 losing out to the Alpha and then Delta variants for domination. Additionally we now have a better understanding of the disease and can save more people.

Additionally something I've said before I think there is a factor there that there was(is) a proportion of the population more vulnerable to the disease, not through existing health or age but more like genetics, who've largely either now died or recovered with some immunity - a lot of early modelling of the disease looked at the impact as if a more uniform thing across the population.

I don't think we are any better, possibly actually worse, prepared should a similar disease emerge which was more deadly but just as capable of spreading, far too many people just can't envision the reality of it I think and in some ways COVID will have made some people even more complacent.
 
GIBURROWS said:
To me you all seem like donuts who have been lied to over a version of the flu and will help to erode all of our freedoms.
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Ignoring the likely troll side, this is a very uninformed opinion - there is a very distinct deviation taxonomy wise at the phylum between SARS-CoV-2 and the Influenza family of viruses, they look very different as viruses go - you'd need a conspiracy on a incredibly massive scale to make that work - you'd need every single medical facility worldwide capable of examining the virus to be in on it. Also symptoms wise we have evidence from many different sources including tons of accounts from everyday people that the disease is capable of infecting a far larger area of the body than flu or cold viruses are capable of which are mostly limited to the respiratory tract, though they can contribute to deterioration of other parts of the body they don't directly infect them, which means even if this was "the flu", which it isn't, it is a whole new dimension compared to dealing with the flu making trying to lump them together meaningless.
 
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