COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

[Tephnos]

Later reports on this are showing no new infectious disease as the cause, and the consensus seems to be that the likely cause is basically a hangover from lockdown with the population having a lower resistance to normal respiratory infections due to lack of exposure.

This as well. The theory of immunity being weakened by lack of exposure is highly questioned and subject to debate.

However, I'd concede it matters a bit more in children who have yet to build up their immune systems in the first place. Adults? Nah.

 

[Mr Jack]

The theory of immunity being weakened by lack of exposure is highly questioned and subject to debate.

No, that's not what they're talking about. It's not a question of immunity being weakened, it's a question of the population not having developed immunity to the particular strains causing infections currently. Although they sound quite similar, the former would be politely described as "controversial" and probably more accurately described as "completely ungrounded"; the latter is simply boringly ordinary epidemiology.

 

[Rroff]

Question being do we believe the Chinese.

So far does seem to be largely down to a common bacterial infection with a lot of it spreading due to poor hygiene, with young kids having their immune system development impacted by COVID being a factor.

You hand on heart believe 232,000 died of just covid and no other contributing factors?

This gets complicated and I don't think anyone is publishing specific numbers any more - around 10-15% of deaths with COVID on the certificate were deaths entirely due to COVID but also a good number where COVID was the underlying cause with comorbidities they would have lived much longer if not for COVID.

Then there are loads of cases of people who've died due to COVID without it being registered as a COVID death where the impact of getting COVID has put them into a terminal decline or premature terminal decline for an existing health issue even though they recovered from COVID. For example someone I went to school with recently lost their husband to a muscle wasting disease who had a life expectancy of at least 10 years, then COVID caused a rapid decline in their condition.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

The constant scaremongering is tiresome, it really is. I don't dispute that people are still dying, but how about some more specifics just every once in a while. Can you honestly still say that covid is a serious health concern for the young and healthy?

Woah hold on Boris Johnson, why are you only mentioning young & healthy
You do realise there are people like me who are old with loads of comorbidities or don't we count

 

[Rroff]

don't we count

You don't count - some people seem to believe in some fairytale where it is possible to shield the vulnerable while everyone else goes on as normal, or rather they don't believe it they just don't want to have to take any personal responsibility that might in any way alter their way of life.

 

[Werewolf]

You don't count - some people seem to believe in some fairytale where it is possible to shield the vulnerable while everyone else goes on as normal, or rather they don't believe it they just don't want to have to take any personal responsibility that might in any way alter their way of life.

They also don't seem to realise that a lot of the "vulnerable" are potentially young and with decades of life left in them if whatever they're "vulnerable" due to is dealt with and a lot of "vulnerable" people have their conditions under control.
And as you say it's impossible to shield the vulnerable without anyone else doing anything, because the vulnerable live with other people, have kids and do jobs that often cannot just be handed off to someone from the job centre (a lot of people in the medical and related fields for example).

Diabetes makes you vulnerable, yet people can and do live with it for decades, a friend who has Cystic Fibrosis and Diabetes is extremely vulnerable, yet he lives a full life and is probably more active normally than many of the people on here (and with current treatments is likely to live for many more years).

there is also the matter that a lot of people don't realise they themselve are "vulnerable" until they've got it, or that the damage covid can do can make you go from "perfectly healthy" to "vulnerable" and it's a bit of a dice roll every time you get it.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

there is also the matter that a lot of people don't realise they themselve are "vulnerable" until they've got it, or that the damage covid can do can make you go from "perfectly healthy" to "vulnerable" and it's a bit of a dice roll every time you get it.

The woman I mentioned the other day: 77 days in ICU and 6 months in a hospital bed said she was fit as a fiddle and wouldn't be classed as vunerable.

 

[Pottsey]

However the fear of COVID now is unjustified now we know more about it.

Unfortunately there were no winners because of this. We all lost. Whether it was friends and family, time, mental health, jobs, marriages, friendships, homes etc.... it really did a number on everyone. There's more to covid than a disease. That's the bigger problem from my perspective. I'm not expecting everyone or anyone to agree, but I see the world slightly differently.

Not sure if I am misreading your intention. That seems overly negative to me and too much of a blanket statement about everyone lost out and it did a number on everyone. COVID while horrible for many it wasnt a case of no winners and everyone lost out. Yes a large amount of people had a horrible time of it but there also all the people who where indifferent or even had a positive experience over the past 3 years. I often hear about people talking about how much they enjoyed the past few years or how the change brought about gave them a quality of life improvement. I am sure there are a lot of people who don't want to go back to the pre COVID style of life as they are better off now. I am not saying that makes up for the very bad experience some people had. Just that we need to try to look at the positives rather then pretend everyone lost.

 

[Freefaller]

Not sure if I am misreading your intention. That seems overly negative to me and too much of a blanket statement about everyone lost out and it did a number on everyone. COVID while horrible for many it wasnt a case of no winners and everyone lost out. Yes a large amount of people had a horrible time of it but there also all the people who where indifferent or even had a positive experience over the past 3 years. I often hear about people talking about how much they enjoyed the past few years or how the change brought about gave them a quality of life improvement. I am sure there are a lot of people who don't want to go back to the pre COVID style of life as they are better off now. I am not saying that makes up for the very bad experience some people had. Just that we need to try to look at the positives rather then pretend everyone lost.

I personally would love to have gone back to pre-covid days. Nothing positive happened as a result of it from my perspective.

 

[Rroff]

I personally would love to have gone back to pre-covid days. Nothing positive happened as a result of it from my perspective.

From my perspective it was interesting how even with a few weeks of lockdown - litter disappeared from a lot of places, nature reclaimed hedgerows, etc. surprisingly quickly, air quality improvements were surprisingly tangible and it was bliss not having to deal with people's small minded BS on a daily basis. COVID aside I've not had a proper cold in years now - and I'm fairly convinced that it actually doesn't take much to largely stop the spread of colds but people are too small minded to work those lessons into their lives.

Sadly we've seemingly learned very little from it however.

 

[ltron]

I personally would love to have gone back to pre-covid days. Nothing positive happened as a result of it from my perspective.

As far as I can see the only positives are the advancements in vaccine technology and the potential of breakthroughs in research into post-viral conditions as a result of Long COVID. Also, potentially more flexibility in working from home (and valuing other things more over work).

 

[ltron]

Sadly we've seemingly learned very little from it however

This is the key point, we need much more resilient and well-funded systems in place for next time (which is significantly more likely to come with the increasing severity of the climate crisis) rather than trying to forget all about it.

It's important we have the means to make sure such profound failures in our response never happen again, COVID and austerity created and exposed profound weaknesses in our system.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

COVID while horrible for many it wasnt a case of no winners and everyone lost out. Yes a large amount of people had a horrible time of it but there also all the people who where indifferent or even had a positive experience over the past 3 years. I often hear about people talking about how much they enjoyed the past few years or how the change brought about gave them a quality of life improvement. I am sure there are a lot of people who don't want to go back to the pre COVID style of life as they are better off now. I am not saying that makes up for the very bad experience some people had. Just that we need to try to look at the positives rather then pretend everyone lost.

For me WfH was amazing and I got a lot closer to my wife.
I only work 2 days a week but one of those is from home and that wouldn't have happened if Covid hadn't happened.
I even enjoyed not having to play in my band because it was getting like a job.
Don't get me wrong, I'd go back to a time Covid didn't exist but there has been a lot of positives for me.
Even my Mental Health issues improved where for many they got worse and I'm still in a good mental state.

 

[VincentHanna]

I actually have COVID again. Second time (officially)

Went to a gig Friday in London, that night I felt itchy in bed. Woke up with a rash in various places that spread very quickly. At one point towards the end of the evening I was so uncomfortable with my hands itching (I mentioned this in the thread about diabetes)

But when I woke up Sunday, the rash had completely disappeared and I thought it might have been a short hives flair up or something (not that I've ever had hives before)

Then yesterday afternoon I started feeling rough with sore throat and blocked nose and lacking energy. Tried to get an early night but didn't sleep very well as my nose was totally blocked.

Woke up today, the rash was back and my wife suggested doing the last COVID test in the draw.

Voila, it came up with 2 red lines.

I'm sitting in my fairly warm house with a thick beenie on my head feeling a bit ****.

 

[Freefaller]

From my perspective it was interesting how even with a few weeks of lockdown - litter disappeared from a lot of places, nature reclaimed hedgerows, etc. surprisingly quickly, air quality improvements were surprisingly tangible and it was bliss not having to deal with people's small minded BS on a daily basis. COVID aside I've not had a proper cold in years now - and I'm fairly convinced that it actually doesn't take much to largely stop the spread of colds but people are too small minded to work those lessons into their lives.

Sadly we've seemingly learned very little from it however.

Yes lockdown was a little quieter and so on, but it was depressing and desolate for so many people. Personally, I not ever had a cold other than the occasional sniffle so I can't relate to your comment, but at the same time I also feel people are catching more colds now as certainly kids have been less exposed to each other during that time. Also so many lockdown pets were bought which in itself causes issues.

As far as I can see the only positives are the advancements in vaccine technology and the potential of breakthroughs in research into post-viral conditions as a result of Long COVID. Also, potentially more flexibility in working from home (and valuing other things more over work).

I'm a bit sceptical of the actual performance of the vaccine, however I agree it certainly made certain groups and countries rally together and accelerate research in some fields which is not a bad thing. WFH is probably the only interesting dynamic - but again I think the hybrid working environment was slowly coming, but covid did accelerate it. That said I think people are missing out from not going into the office. We're bringing back in a 40% a week in the office rule which I personally support.

This is the key point, we need much more resilient and well-funded systems in place for next time (which is significantly more likely to come with the increasing severity of the climate crisis) rather than trying to forget all about it.

It's important we have the means to make sure such profound failures in our response never happen again, COVID and austerity created and exposed profound weaknesses in our system.

I agree that we're awful at learning. I mean look at the crises in the world at the moment. Energy, climate, wars, political turmoil and more locally, our finances in this country are shot, the NHS is on its knees, massive cost of living issues, fiscal drag, lying and corrupt politicians... people have forgotten how to be human and behave and be a decent member of society, we don't have enough police, petty crimes in the rise. To me the world / at least the UK feels broken and not to be a very happy place. Is this covid alone? No. But it sure as hell contributed to it.

 

[GGizmo]

The most promising trial leading the long covid pack is this;

Three Severely Ill Long COVID Patients - Three Rapid Recoveries: Monoclonal Antibodies, LC and ME/CFS - Health Rising

Three case reports indicate that monoclonal antibody therapy rapidly restored severely ill patients with long term cases of long COVID to health. Implications for chronic fatigue syndrome are explored.

www.healthrising.org

 

[Werewolf]

That is interesting and although very very small scale at the moment, hopeful.

I was reading the opening and even before the article mentioned it was thinking "I'm betting the people who were ill worked with those doctors", as I know just enough of US medical (insurance) practices and costs to know that you tend to either have to have a lot of money or a very dedicated medical team to get what are likely expensive "on the off chance it helps" treatments.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

As would be assuming it was solely the infection in all of these cases too?

Be honest from both sides and say you don't know because, well, you don't know.

Arguing over technicalities of whether it was 100% the virus or anything else is pointless, the fact is the underlying trend or rate of deaths was massively higher for the peak rate of the pandemic and trying to smooth that away by saying oh we can't say it was with certainty the virus had anything to do with that at all is disingenuous at best and deliberate misinformation and deflection at worst

The constant scaremongering is tiresome, it really is. I don't dispute that people are still dying, but how about some more specifics just every once in a while. Can you honestly still say that covid is a serious health concern for the young and healthy?

It isn't scaremongering its simply a fact, whether you want to bury your head in the sand and say **** you to anyone who isn't young is your problem

Woah hold on Boris Johnson, why are you only mentioning young & healthy
You do realise there are people like me who are old with loads of comorbidities or don't we count

Young and healthy is a misnomer as well it doesn't affect the young as much but for the lucky accident that they don't have nearly as many infectable ACE receptors, influenza infection and death rates amongst children are frighteningly high, age is no protection there

 

[RossGReds]

It isn't scaremongering its simply a fact, whether you want to bury your head in the sand and say **** you to anyone who isn't young is your problem

What am I burying my head in the sand about? As it stands right now, to a healthy young person, covid presents very little threat to their health. Don't agree with that? Then prove me wrong.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

What am I burying my head in the sand about? As it stands right now, to a healthy young person, covid presents very little threat to their health. Don't agree with that? Then prove me wrong.

You're burying your head in the sand about older and unhealthier people, you're posting about the Master Race being Ok but **** the rest of us - not nice dude.
You're the one going on about "Constant scaremongering" but for a vast amount of people it is still worrying.
Others have also pointed out that young & healthy means nothing with Covid around, I personally know six young & healthy people who have been taken by it and many struggling, we have some on here, obviously it depends what you class as young.