COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

Maple Leaf said:
Do an antigen home-test and if it's positive then regularly monitor your blood oxygenation levels with a pulse oximeter, if your levels drop too low then go to hospital. Pulse oximeters can be bought by next-day delivery on Amazon for under £15. (This is not medical advice, it's just what we were being told to do during the pandemic.)
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Sorry for the triple (!) post,but yeah I haven't been able to get a full lung of air for about 3 days. Laboured breathing. I feel a little better now so hopefully it's passing.
 
mid_gen said:
The earlier variants attacked the lungs more as I understand, the omicron and later goes at the throat more. Certainly my experience having had a pre and post omicron variant. V

There is certainly evolutionary pressure for viruses to become less severe over time, as a virus that puts someone in hospital or lays them up at home in bed is going to lose out to one that just makes people feel rough and spread mucus around coughing but otherwise we'll enough to keep getting about and spreading it.

While you are contagious pre-symptoms, you are *way* more contagious when you've developed a cough that is ejecting the virus all over the place.
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There is not any 'evolutionary pressure' for viruses to become less severe over time, please stop parroting this myth just because it makes sense. The evidence for this barely exists, if at all. If what you said was so readily true, please explain why viruses like smallpox never became milder. We had to eradicate it ourselves. Why hasn't Ebola become milder and more successful, either?

What adapts is our immune systems. Viral evolution is completely chaotic and unpredictable.
 
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Rroff said:
There still seems to be some hospitalisation with it but I've not seen many people get symptoms like they were in early days, even those who've never had a vaccination and probably haven't had it previously.

Some people were getting properly ill with variants around the early days of Delta. You could often tell it was COVID from the cough and the way it kind of hollowed them out for a better way to put it.
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>probably haven't had it previously.

Almost certainly false. You cannot have any kind of contact with people and not have had it asymptomatically at this point. It makes getting good controls for studies quite problematic.

Also, Alpha/Delta were anomalies where the virus increased in virulence. That's why I specified that Omicron is no less severe than the original wild type, as it merely returned to baseline. Omicron is from a lineage that predates Alpha, hence why it ditched the increased virulence.
 
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SexyGreyFox said:
Why are you calling it a so called vaccine, don't you believe it does anything?
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Probably because pre-covid, the definition of a vaccine was, once taking said vaccine you would be immune from said disease.

During covid, when it became very clear to everybody that the covid vaccine(s) did not prevent you from getting covid, they changed the definition from immunity to protection.

So now we are in a situation where a vaccine does not stop you from contracting a disease, but merely helps it be a wee bit not worse than it might have been.

RIP vaccines :cry:
 
Tephnos said:
>probably haven't had it previously.

Almost certainly false. You cannot have any kind of contact with people and not have had it asymptomatically at this point. It makes getting good controls for studies quite problematic.

Also, Alpha/Delta were anomalies where the virus increased in virulence. That's why I specified that Omicron is no less severe than the original wild type, as it merely returned to baseline. Omicron is from a lineage that predates Alpha, hence why it ditched the increased virulence.
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I know people who through work i.e. caring have been testing regular or just live such isolated lives their exposure to COVID has been relatively minimal, etc.

I'm not saying it is trending milder, but people don't seem to be having the same impact, at least main symptoms wise, with Omicron compared to the earlier variants in general circulation and I'm not convinced that is purely or mostly down to vaccines or immunity developed from previous infections.
 
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maschio said:
Probably because pre-covid, the definition of a vaccine was, once taking said vaccine you would be immune from said disease.

During covid, when it became very clear to everybody that the covid vaccine(s) did not prevent you from getting covid, they changed the definition from immunity to protection.

So now we are in a situation where a vaccine does not stop you from contracting a disease, but merely helps it be a wee bit not worse than it might have been.

RIP vaccines :cry:
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Really?

Is that the reason why you need a flu jab every year to be protected (every year they make the jab for different variations, usually about 4 per jab*), or why you need a booster for tetinus every ten years and if you've got a wound requiring stitching and there is any chance it was dirty you're likely to get a booster for it at A&E if you've not had one recently, or why most of the childhood diseases require a course of 2-5 shots, or that you get boosters for several diseases as you get older.
Or that even the best, most tried and tested vaccines in the world that have been in use for decades can have rates for success measured in the high 80% range as some people's immune systems aren't strong enough for it to take (one of the main reasons for vaccines to be effective it needs virtually everyone to get one, specifically because you rely on enough people getting it for it not to spread between those who can't have one or it hasn't worked on).

It's almost like you're using a definition of a vaccine that doesn't exist.

IIRC one of the reasons the covid vaccine isn't working as well as some of the others is for basically the same reason the flu vaccine isn't a one and done shot, covid has mutated a lot, fortunately not enough to stop the vaccines working completely but enough that it takes your body slightly longer to recognise it and react, but the vaccine still works as most do, to reduce the effect of the infection and the duration.


*And you can still get the flu, because they base what versions the jab should carry based on what is going around something like 6 months earlier and if they get it wrong it doesn't work, not to mention there are something like 3 major flu "families" each of which has it's own myriad of variations.
 
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Rroff said:
I know people who through work i.e. caring have been testing regular or just live such isolated lives their exposure to COVID has been relatively minimal, etc.

I'm not saying it is trending milder, but people don't seem to be having the same impact, at least main symptoms wise, with Omicron compared to the earlier variants in general circulation and I'm not convinced that is purely or mostly down to vaccines or immunity developed from previous infections.
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Again, unless they've had blood tests done to rule out antibodies (PCR isn't always perfect) then you just can't say with any confidence they never got it.

Which is why I'm saying the evidence that suggests Omicron is milder than the OG virus just doesn't exist. Milder than Alpha/Delta, yes. That's about it. To be fair, Alpha/Delta were especially severe so I am not surprised it looks as if things aren't that bad nowadays. The amount of the population exposed to pre-Alpha variants is very low after all.
 
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Werewolf said:
Really?

Is that the reason why you need a flu jab every year to be protected (every year they make the jab for different variations, usually about 4 per jab*), or why you need a booster for tetinus every ten years and if you've got a wound requiring stitching and there is any chance it was dirty you're likely to get a booster for it at A&E if you've not had one recently, or why most of the childhood diseases require a course of 2-5 shots, or that you get boosters for several diseases as you get older.
Or that even the best, most tried and tested vaccines in the world that have been in use for decades can have rates for success measured in the high 80% range as some people's immune systems aren't strong enough for it to take (one of the main reasons for vaccines to be effective it needs virtually everyone to get one, specifically because you rely on enough people getting it for it not to spread between those who can't have one or it hasn't worked on).

It's almost like you're using a definition of a vaccine that doesn't exist.


*And you can still get the flu, because they base what versions the jab should carry based on what is going around something like 6 months earlier and if they get it wrong it doesn't work, not to mention there are something like 3 major flu "families" each of which has it's own myriad of variations.
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I am pretty sure he's posted this before and I have corrected him before on it.

May as well as call a spade a spade - he's a complete idiot.
 
Werewolf said:
Really?

Is that the reason why you need a flu jab every year to be protected (every year they make the jab for different variations, usually about 4 per jab*), or why you need a booster for tetinus every ten years and if you've got a wound requiring stitching and there is any chance it was dirty you're likely to get a booster for it at A&E if you've not had one recently, or why most of the childhood diseases require a course of 2-5 shots, or that you get boosters for several diseases as you get older.
Or that even the best, most tried and tested vaccines in the world that have been in use for decades can have rates for success measured in the high 80% range as some people's immune systems aren't strong enough for it to take (one of the main reasons for vaccines to be effective it needs virtually everyone to get one, specifically because you rely on enough people getting it for it not to spread between those who can't have one or it hasn't worked on).

It's almost like you're using a definition of a vaccine that doesn't exist.


*And you can still get the flu, because they base what versions the jab should carry based on what is going around something like 6 months earlier and if they get it wrong it doesn't work, not to mention there are something like 3 major flu "families" each of which has it's own myriad of variations.
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Vaccine - a substance used to stimulate immunity to a particular infectious disease or pathogen, typically prepared from an inactivated or weakened form of the causative agent or from its constituents or products.

It's not really surprising people get a bit confused. If the dictionary definition mentions immunity.

Why are people being called idiots for thinking vaccine meant immunity? The language and understanding of it all definitely shifted over time.

What would we call a drug if it actually made you 100% immune to something with a 100% success rate?

Would that be called a vaccine or would it need a new word?
 
Hedge said:
Vaccine - a substance used to stimulate immunity to a particular infectious disease or pathogen, typically prepared from an inactivated or weakened form of the causative agent or from its constituents or products.

It's not really surprising people get a bit confused. If the dictionary definition mentions immunity.

Why are people being called idiots for thinking vaccine meant immunity? The language and understanding of it all definitely shifted over time.

What would we call a drug if it actually made you 100% immune to something with a 100% success rate?

Would that be called a vaccine or would it need a new word?
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They're being called idiots because apparently they never once thought about Flu vaccines not providing perfect immunity ever, nor did they ever think about boosters that you need, etc.

If they're clever enough to point out dictionary definitions, they should've thought about it a bit harder. They never questioned it until the convenience of politicising covid came around, simple as that.
 
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Tephnos said:
They're being called idiots because apparently they never once thought about Flu vaccines not providing perfect immunity ever, nor did they ever think about boosters that you need, etc.

If they're clever enough to point out dictionary definitions, they should've thought about it a bit harder. They never questioned it until the convenience of politicising covid came around, simple as that.
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I think until Covid most peoples experience with vaccines was thinking "oh I had my BCG in school and never caught tuberculosis" or "I've had my measles vaccine and never had measles"...

Then it became "I've had my Covid vaccine, caught Covid 3 times since but it didn't put me in hospital so that's a win"

So yeah, perception of what a vaccine did for people changed.

Fortunately you can hold your head high and get off on knowing you're smarter than everyone.

And for the record. Ive always understood efficacy in vaccines (my mother was in Nursing for 40+ years) but I am still able to understand why a large number of the public get a bit confused by it all.

But yeah.

Idiots innit.
 
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Just a little update. I feel terrible as of this post. I feel completely drained of energy,a bit depressed and honestly a little delusional. I'm typing this on the throne fyi. I'll load up my bot account tomorrow :p

*Also as I said,you guys enjoy poking yourselves with needles. I'm the rocky meme If he dies,he dies.
 
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Hedge said:
I think until Covid most peoples experience with vaccines was thinking "oh I had my BCG in school and never caught tuberculosis" or "I've had my measles vaccine and never had measles"...

Then it became "I've had my Covid vaccine, caught Covid 3 times since but it didn't put me in hospital so that's a win"

So yeah, perception of what a vaccine did for people changed.

Fortunately you can hold your head high and get off on knowing you're smarter than everyone.

And for the record. Ive always understood efficacy in vaccines (my mother was in Nursing for 40+ years) but I am still able to understand why a large number of the public get a bit confused by it all.

But yeah.

Idiots innit.
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It costs nothing to do some googling that everyone has access to in order to figure this stuff out.

But no, they'll read tripe off of Facebook and parrot it all the same.

Idiots for sure. There's no excuse in today's world of such easily accessible information.
 
Fell asleep, woke up (just now) sitting on the throne,still feel like ****. About to eat some Weetabix. Check in soon for the next episode of ooStevo,and his bot account. Sexygreyfox will provide updates. (Is he sexy though? Stay tuned for confirmation)
 
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