COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion

Mr Jack said:
But those are conspiracies, not conspiracy theories. That's not the same thing. There have certainly been conspiracies and cover-ups in the past, and there will be in the future. What there haven't been, afaik, is a group of people claiming that everything is a conspiracy among shadowy actors with fanciful justifications which contrast with generally accepted facts, that has then turned out to be correct.

A conspiracy theory isn't just a theory that happens to involve a conspiracy, or a mere conspiracy, it involves more than that.
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So how do you tell what is a conspiracy or a conspiracy theory? You realize that is impossible right?
 
Mr Jack said:
But those are conspiracies, not conspiracy theories. That's not the same thing.
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They were conspiracy theories at the time, or at least some of them were. It's just a different era and conspiracy theories about absolutely everything are absolutely ubiquitous now.
 
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platinum87 said:
Did you stop to think you only see people who are sick who have covid? And not the countless millions of people who got covid and had zero symptoms at all?

You should quit your job because you are not cut out for seeing that death and sickness on a constant basis.
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Ive had COVID 3 times, many of my friends and family with virtually no symptoms so what are you getting at :)
What are you trying to make up?
I just so happen to see the really bad side also.
 
platinum87 said:
So how do you tell what is a conspiracy or a conspiracy theory? You realize that is impossible right?
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Why would it be impossible? The features of a conspiracy theory are quite distinctive. Just take the nonsense above, according to our conspiracist every country is the world has been lying and posting faked death data whilst covering up the side effects. Hundreds of thousands of people, probably millions, across multiple countries all lying because? Well, who knows.

Contrast that to actual known conspiracies and it's easy to see the difference.

Ayahuasca said:
They were conspiracy theories at the time, or at least some of them were. It's just a different era and conspiracy theories about absolutely everything are absolutely ubiquitous now.
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Maybe so. I can't see any evidence of that although, of course, that doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen. It's certainly true that things have got worse, but stuff like The Protocols of the Elders of Zion show that it's hardly a completely modern invention.
 
platinum87 said:
Did you stop to think you only see people who are sick who have covid? And not the countless millions of people who got covid and had zero symptoms at all?

You should quit your job because you are not cut out for seeing that death and sickness on a constant basis.
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No, he should be rewarded for his dashing courage; and heroic bravery with a taxpayer funded medal. Lol.
 
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Mr Jack said:
Why would it be impossible? The features of a conspiracy theory are quite distinctive. Just take the nonsense above, according to our conspiracist every country is the world has been lying and posting faked death data whilst covering up the side effects. Hundreds of thousands of people, probably millions, across multiple countries all lying because? Well, who knows.

Contrast that to actual known conspiracies and it's easy to see the difference.
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Because to tell the difference between whatever distinction you make requires omniscience.

The death data is not faked, the stats say it, deaths within 28 days of testing positive, but most people who quote it say covid deaths, that itself is a lie of omission. If you ever used that statement yourself, you are lying also, so do you see how easy it is for a million people to lie?

As for side effects, there are plenty of examples of side effects being covered up and drugs being removed, none of what you have said thus far is impossible to occur.

Again the only way to tell is hindsight after the fact.

How can MK-ultra not fit into your conspiracy theory definition, its the CIA using drugs to brainwash people, who the hell would say that is reasonable to state.
 
platinum87 said:
Because to tell the difference between whatever distinction you make requires omniscience.
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No, it doesn't.

How can MK-ultra not fit into your conspiracy theory definition, its the CIA using drugs to brainwash people, who the hell would say that is reasonable to state.
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Were there conspiracy theories about this happening?
 
platinum87 said:
There is no way to continue if you disagree that it doesn't require omniscience
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I don't see any feature that requires omniscience, perhaps you can explain?

Simply list all theories you believe are conspiracy theories, and when one of them comes true it proves my point.
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This would be the opposite of the question of whether a conspiracy theory has ever been found to be true.

You said the MK-Ultra was. I don't know much about it, tbh, but as far as I can see it wasn't revealed by a conspiracy theory turning out to be true but by investigative journalism published in mainstream newspapers.
 
Mr Jack said:
But those are conspiracies, not conspiracy theories. That's not the same thing.
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They are now (as they've been proven to be true) but they were initially "conspiracy theories" (should technically be hypotheses but "theory" is used in that sense colloquially).

That conspiracy theories commonly describe alleged conspiracies that typically range from rather implausible to outright crank nonsense doesn't negate that sometimes there are more plausible conspiracy theories that turn out to be true.

Watergate, for example, wasn't a huge scandal initially. That was initially a conspiracy theory that took some investigation by journalists over a couple of years before the extent of the conspiracy was revealed.
 
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platinum87 said:
So how do you tell what is a conspiracy or a conspiracy theory? You realize that is impossible right?
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A conspiracy theory is the hypothesis (idea/prediction), perhaps based on incomplete information, that a particular conspiracy exists. Occasionally, perhaps after some investigation, it may become apparent that the conspiracy does or did indeed exist ergo the "theory" was correct.
 
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Whatever happened to that superspreader fella, the international traveller who supposedly took it from Asia to the ski slopes? I heard a rumour he was at an outdoor market, where he ate a bat that bit a crocodile that ate a pangolin infested with fleas that jumped off a dog that was owned by a virologist who...coincidentally...worked in a lab with coronavirus in its title.
 
dowie said:
A conspiracy theory is the hypothesis (idea/prediction), perhaps based on incomplete information, that a particular conspiracy exists. Occasionally, perhaps after some investigation, it may become apparent that the conspiracy does or did indeed exist ergo the "theory" was correct.
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If you want to use the term in such a literal fashion then, yeah, there have been conspiracy theories that have turned out to be true. However, I don't think that is the usual usage of the term "conspiracy theory"; simply hypothesising some degree of conspiracy isn't enough. But arguing over what words mean is about the most pointless exercise on the entire internet.
 
There is surely a long list of conspiracy theories that turned out to be true. Here's one ... smoking was bad for you. A huge coverup, doctors bought and big tobacco lobbied for years to keep this a conspiracy theory.

That Jimmy Saville was a nonce and a lot of people were covering it up. Ridiculous slander and a conspiracy theory. CIA mind control. Ridiculous!!!! The government was spying on everyone. Crazy tin foil hat stuff. The CIA was controlling the US media by planting stories and manipulating the news. Watergate. Northwoods. What about that one where the US govt gave thousands of black people Syphilis without their knowledge? Bohemian Grove. More recently, the Wuhan lab leak. Shots 100% safe and effective.

It amazes me the lengths people go to protect big pharma and the lying media & governments. In the last decade, GSK was fined 3 billion USD for criminal activity including failure to disclose safety data. You had one of the head honchos in court saying they didn't know if the covid shots even protected against transmission, yet it was rammed down everyone's throats for years this was the case and was the basis for "doing the right thing". All the big pharma companies have been at it. Cover-ups, kickbacks, false claims. Fines in the billions. Yet.... anyone who dared to question them were labelled as nut jobs.

As I said before, this period in time will be studied and talked about for a long time.
 
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Conspiracy theory dogma is government textbook denial. Somebody begins to talk about a secret? Rely on the public at large to belittle that person and unthinkingly assume he's a nutjob.

Life is about balance. Sometimes theories are correct, and sometimes they are not. I still don't believe in the Loch Ness monster theory, but there is something compelling about how the pyramids were built given what historians would have us believe the available resources were at the time.

Coronavirus? Well there are a few things which don't stack up for me that would enable me to knuckle under and swallow what the mainstream talkers are trying to feed us. Under the rule of thumb that is 'walks like a duck, quacks like a duck', I believe the following: a) the virus came out of the lab, b) the virus is just another form of influenza, c) there are millions of people around the world who were/are suffering from other conditions and blamed in on the virus, d) the vaccines were a rushed-job, which should only have been taken by those vulnerable to influenza, and e) Valance had a conflict of interest that was influencing the level of stupidity and economy-wrecking decisions coming out of the civil service machine (or government, if you like to believe that).
 
Deadly Ferret said:
.... but there is something compelling about how the pyramids were built given what historians would have us believe the available resources were at the time.
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HA HA HA HA HA!

the virus is just another form of influenza
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Influenza is a negative-sense RNA virus; SARS-CoV-2 is a positive-sense RNA virus. They are fundamentally different in their biology.
 
Mr Jack said:
Influenza is a negative-sense RNA virus; SARS-CoV-2 is a positive-sense RNA virus. They are fundamentally different in their biology.
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Well all those tens of millions of test kits that conveniently already existed in March 2020 supposedly worked on it. What were they made for?

PS: Everybody I spoke with, who said they had it, I asked them if they'd previously had the flu. They said yes. I asked if it felt the same. They said yes. I've never had flu, and never knowingly had coronavirus. Seems like a duck to me...
 
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