I did ask if you were working for the NHS during covid, but you haven't replied.
COVID-19 (Coronavirus) discussion
- Thread starter ThundyCat
- Start date
Don
ARI here was half empty and even furloughed a bunch of nurses and doctors in 2020. Nurses on my vaccine trial were glad of something to do as they had been sat at home for 6 months.
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www.nhsgrampian.org
(this was only released due to a FOI request later on as well)
That and the old "wrong beds" also stems from the mistaken belief folk had to go onto ventilators for covid, something else we copied from the Chinese! We threw the standard respiratory treatment book in the bin and decided to make it up as we went along (Sweden didn't).
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The real scandal here is that the government ordered hospitals to clear out care home residents from hospitals (these are likely the vast majority of the reduction of non-elective medical treatment cases in March 2020) and put them back in care homes. There's evidence that not only was there a large spike in the use of drugs used to "gently" help people off this mortal coil, but that people were actively forging loved ones signatures on DNR forms, just last month police actually have now started looking at care home deaths from a criminal point of view:
Covid deaths scandal as Scots police probe fraudulent Do Not Resuscitate forms
Operation Koper, set up by the Crown Office to investigate Covid deaths in care homes, will also look at whether Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) forms were illegally signed for elderly and disabled people.
www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk
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Soldato
Sorry I missed that. I quit before Covid.
Ok, so you have no first hand experience of the hospitals at that time and are basically relying on circumstantial evidence or anecdotal evidence of what you believe was going on?
Soldato
If I did have first-hand experience you'd call it anecdotal and not based on statistics. Believe what you want. The facts simply don't stack up to back the claim the NHS was at breaking point.
I could provide people here with the best evidence you've ever seen and they'd still call me a conspiracy theorist.
But, the best thing about being a conspiracy theorist?
Not having Myocarditis.
I could provide people here with the best evidence you've ever seen and they'd still call me a conspiracy theorist.
But, the best thing about being a conspiracy theorist?
Not having Myocarditis.
Commissario
If you are doing full on infection control (meaning basically no non emergency cases), and doing as much remotely then yes parts of hospitals are going to be basically shut down...
One of the reasons for this is there are hundreds of interlocking specialities in medicine, and if for example the specialists who deal with keeping patients unconscious or on ventilators are all moved to ICU or patients with covid it means that as an example you cannot do any routine operations because the people needed for them are already working full time, which might mean you've now got the medical staff who'd normally be dealing with those patients post op, often for weeks or months not doing their normal jobs.
Basically you take out planned operations because you need the staff and equipment for emergency/urgent care of one specific type and you suddenly end up with multiple recovery wards that are basically empty because there are no "incoming" patients for them, or an extremely reduced flow. You might also call off the major routine ops because a patient recovering from say a joint replacement is very vulnerable to infection and is far less likely to recover from say Covid than they mgiht have been if they hadn't just had what is effectively a major controlled injury to their body.
Add in things like the fact the lock downs IIRC massively reduced the number of urgent care requirements due to things like RTA's, and sporting injuries (one of the big things that helped the NHS cope with the covid patients) and the normal route from say A&E to pre-surgery ward, to surgery, to post surgery, to pre-release wards and care is now nearly empty so whilst in the average week a single operating theatre might be doing 10+ major operations and feeding those patients to aftercare in the hospital for a week or more each, now it's not happening so those wards are largely empty.
There there was the push to do as much as possible remotely, meaning that for example my brother in law's physio was largely done remotely (IIRC about 1 in 4 sessions was in person) via skype/zoom, and when he did go in for checkups/examinations of his arm it was very quiet but the physios were still working, they just were not visible and often working from home or different locations to their normal rooms (the location of which was determined by the fact that normally they had to be near each other because that was where the physio reception etc was*, something that didn't matter if they were working remotely).
then there is the fact that if you're in full on infection control mode, you are primarily treating emergency cases and trying not to have patients mingling, which means things like routine eye and ear specialists are going to have a lot of "spare" time because their specialities are such that you need them for emergency cases, but they're also not likely to be qualified to actually help much with say a patient on a ventilator (or no better qualified to help than a less specialised medic who certainly can't do the job in ophthalmology or audiology), and they can't do their jobs remotely.
*Going back about a year or so I had the funny thing with my father of going to a planned appointment for his hearing, going to the right department and the guy coming out and taking us to another area entirely because it housed some of the same equipment and IIRC the machine in his office was broken so he was using a "spare" that was in a related department when he needed it.
You have had people on here who worked throughout covid in the NHS say you're wrong, they are still working in the NHS saying your wrong and had first hand experience saying you're wrong. And yet you think showing tiktok videos is concrete proof we are all wrong.
I may not have worked for the NHS during covid but my wife and son both were. I think I would trust them over tiktok.( my son's job was driving an ambulance, strangely with suspected/positive covid patients)
I do believe you can get Myocarditis not just from covid jabs but from other viruses and some medication
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Commissario
Which stats?
The number of "beds" for example unless you break it down to what type of beds utilised is pointless, same as if it doesn't account for staffing those beds.
What we do know is that the NHS did not have enough capacity in many areas for the number of patients that required very specialised levels of care, not because they didn't have the "beds" but because typically a "500 bed hospital" might only have a few dozen "beds" of the type that were desperately needed by covid patients, and by "bed" what we mean is a "bed with all the staff and equipment needed", which the normal wards don't have, and as I said earlier, they were taking the equipment and staff from Operating Theatres to provide for the covid cases, that alone should tell you how desperate they were for the right sort of "bed" capacity.
It's the same reason if there is a major traffic accident, rail accident, fire, or terrorist attack the hospitals will declare "major incident" as whilst they might have hundreds of beds, they only have the staff and equipment to deal with a a small percentage of any one type of major medical issue at a time.
To give you an idea of what I mean, my local hospital (a teaching/university one) has something like 5 specialist "resuss" bays next to A&E, if they have more than that many people with the need for that they have to start filling up A&E's major bays (about 20 of them), and urgently start to look at moving the patients to other facilities, or informing the ambulance service that they are now closed to heart attacks etc, it doesn't matter if they've still got 100 normal beds free on the wards, those ward beds are completely unsuited to dealing with that kind of patient (and the reality is, they're unlikely to have anything like that many spare at normal times).
Commissario
IIRC Myocarditis is really common with some fairly common viruses and bacterial infections.
From memory it's basically something causing the heart to become inflamed/enlarged, basically any infection that is nasty or multi organ can cause it as a side effect of how the immune system is responding.
The funny thing is, it's the very small, basically inert "spike" proteins in the covid jab that you want the immune system to respond to that cause it with the jab, but if you get covid your immune system is going to be trying to respond to many times that number of the spike proteins at the same time covid is actively damaging your body and weakening your ability to deal with it, so if you have the reaction to the jab there is a very good chance your reaction to the real thing would be much much worse (IIRC covid basically causes it as a routine thing rather than a "rare event")
Aaaah yes, that old "I could provide people here with the best evidence, but you wouldn't believe me" line...
If you have "the best evidence" show it, change our minds.
For someone who pretends to have 137IQ, you sure do come out with some really dumb ****.
I didn't want to say that out loud
It just gets tiresome at this point to continue to humor his nonsense..
Nobody with a 137IQ could so obviously and plainly fail at critical thinking to come to the conclusions he does.
That they would rather believe "The hospitals were not busy" from their expert analysis of TikTok, rather than consider any of the points raised by @Werewolf above.
Then to wheel out that classic CT line of "I could show you the greatest evidence but you wouldn't believe me".
Just beggars belief really.
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If i'm totally honest with myself, i had never heard of myocarditis or pericarditiis until people started being diagnosed with it en masse after the covid vaccines were pushed out.
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Why would you, unless you were interested in medical conditions.
Soldato
News article from yesterday.
When it all comes spilling out, I wonder how many here will apologise.
When it all comes spilling out, I wonder how many here will apologise.
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www.itv.com
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Commissario
I suspect you couldn't name a tiny fraction of the common side effects of various illnesses, or even the proper name for stuff you've had in the past.
Just because it starts being said in the media and on twitter etc doesn't mean it isn't common or something that hospitals watch out for.
About 10 years ago if I said "Sepsis" to you, there is a good chance you wouldn't have known what it was/how it presents (although you might have had some idea of what it referred to due to the name being similar to septic), since then due to a few missed cases hospitals are plastered with posters giving the warning signs of it.
A scary number of adults can't tell you the proper names of half your internal organs, and that's something covered in basic biology.
The other half will probably misplace them or show you someone showing you it on tiktok.
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Soldato
So it begs the question …
If 5 years ago we hadn’t heard about it, and now it’s common speak, what changed?
You just proved my point.
This gets quite complicated - a disease like COVID takes up an inordinate amount of resources and impact on other services and a healthcare facility can be flat out dealing with COVID while having other areas empty and/or staff who aren't able to contribute to dealing with COVID having time on their hands because they can't do their normal job like they would under normal circumstances while COVID measures are in place.
My local district hospital in the run up to the firebreak lockdown was very close to breaking point, hit 90% of their ability to cope due to COVID and was having to move patients out to outlying hospitals which weren't hit as hard and/or not able to operate normally due to the circumstances which is a very less than ideal situation, I've 2 cousins who work there as well as knowing family of colleagues at work who work there so was getting information direct as to how bad things were. One of my cousins was pulled over from oncology and was not happy about the situation - they were under massive pressure dealing with COVID and having cancer care impacted.
My dad had to go in for an eye op during that period and where he was was almost completely empty because all the efforts were focussed on staying on top of the COVID situation.
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