CPR W3 on Hairworks(Nvidia Game Works)-'the code of this feature cannot be optimized for AMD'

[Silent_Scone]

I just have to wonder if you cannot see it a different way? This is no different than paying vendors to not use an open standard, in this case tressfx. We have to account for the fact that using hairworks is bad for the developer and thier product overall because only half or less of their customers can get a full experience. Basically half of them will be various parts annoyed, disappointed or worse. And yet why would a previously golden-child developer commit to such a deed? When the alternative is to use a freely available hair engine which can be equally optimized for minimal impact on any gpu.

Why would CDPR knowingly impact half their customer base?

When you figure that one out, let me ask, is it AMD's job to pay developers to just to prevent them from making decisions like the inclusion of HW into their code? There's a lot of wrong in the industry, but I don't see how not stooping low is par for the course.

Only the developers actively either chose to not implement TressFX, or felt there wasn't time. I don't believe for a second that there is anything legally binding stopping TressFX being in TW3. Also without knowing or having access to the toolsets you can't be certain how easy TFX is to implement. We've only had one game use it.

There needs to be financial incentive more often than not, because if there is not then there are no effects, period. The big publishers don't care for it, the smaller ones don't have time / money to do it. Hence why GW is allowed to exist in the first place. That's the push.

Simply saying "oh well we emailed them and they said no". Not a fantastic basis for really giving your consumers something that bit extra. From what little we've seen of TFX I think it's definitely a better looking method of hair rendering. I'm not entirely sure it's NVIDIA's problem that using a tessellation method that doesn't really cope well on AMD hardware is NVIDIA's problem. AMD just need to up their game and it won't even be a problem. Final note I think from the trend that's been appearing the main word is communication or lack of. You ask a few people in the industry and they'll tell a similar tale. NVIDIA's working relationship just seems a lot better. But this is probably in large part due to having the resources. Emailing backwards and forwards isn't always the best means.


The game is amazing with or without HairWorks BTW

 

[Martini1991]

So, AMD's tessellation isn't poor as long as you're using a card most of us don't want (Because a lot of us here have better performing cards already, except on the tessellation)
It's a bit of a flawed argument really.

Sure, the issue is getting "addressed", but it's not really going to show until the next generation.

 

[Martini1991]

Hold on, why are we comparing the 980 and 290, the 290 is over a year older Of course it is going to be worse in pretty much everything...

Look at the 780 tessmark, look at the 290X tessmark.

Case = Made.

Sure, as soon as AMD's new stuff's out, AMD's performance is going to jump up.

 

[Silent_Scone]

So, AMD's tessellation isn't poor as long as you're using a card most of us don't want (Because a lot of us here have better performing cards already, except on the tessellation)
It's a bit of a flawed argument really.

Sure, the issue is getting "addressed", but it's not really going to show until the next generation.

Where it becomes an issue with line tessellation is where the polygons are small enough in size, and AMD's pipeline seems to literally dive bomb. NVIDIA cards generally don't have a problem with it. So by that definition certain people seem to think it's this incredibly inefficient travesty. This is a general rule for tessellation performance anyway for both venders, the smaller the polygon size the more performance intensive the scene will be.

TessMark isn't even really relevant as for one it's not restricted by the same rules as DX11 as it's rendering under OpenGL and second it's a synthetic bench that only allows one to adjust the amount of tessellation required with routine geometry i.e it's not really relative to real world performance in a game engine. Yet it still shows you an inherent weakness there. Namely in their drivers, actually. Maybe Thesmokingman can clarify if AMD are still only using one pipeline in their OpenGL drivers?

 

[LambChop]

I got round to installing patch 1.04 last night and I managed to get 10 mins solid play time. My problem was that it would crash every couple of mins so maybe this patch fixed a few things ?

 

[Nexus18]

Depends who you ask. Some people have been blurting that 8XMSAA was excessive but it doesn't really have a huge performance impact as it's only applied to HairWorks. The amount of tessellation is indeed the main performance culprit, but lowering it also has quite an impact on rendering quality as can be seen in the AMD screenshot example

I can't notice much, if any difference between 8x and 64x tessellation in the hair from screenshots and certainly don't think I would notice when I am playing the game and not looking at a zoomed in screenshot of Geralt's hair

Personally I don't like hairworks for Geralt's hair any way so have it turned off plus it still kills performance for me even with 8x setting.

Look at the 780 tessmark, look at the 290X tessmark.

Case = Made.

Sure, as soon as AMD's new stuff's out, AMD's performance is going to jump up.

Read the rest of my post

Hold on, why are we comparing the 980 and 290, the 290 is over a year older Of course it is going to be worse in pretty much everything...

But yes I won't disagree that the "current" (excluding the 285) AMD cards are super crap for tessellation compared to nvidia cards, even the 780 (released same year as the 290) is far better than the 290 for tess.

But humbug has a point regarding the 285, it competes with a nvidia 760 in terms of overall performance in games and its tess. performance is a decent bit higher so I think it is safe to say that AMD's new lot of cards will be a lot better for tessellation, at least matching or even surpassing the 980/970 for tess., we will just have to wait and see....

Of course people can compare the 980 and AMD's latest card but I just think it is a bit pointless, not only is the card over a year older but the price difference is £200+

 

[LambChop]

I can't notice much, if any difference between 8x and 64x tessellation in the hair from screenshots and certainly don't think I would notice when I am playing the game and not looking at a zoomed in screenshot of Geralt's hair

Personally I don't like hairworks for Geralt's hair any way so have it turned off plus it still kills performance for me even with 8x setting.



Read the rest of my post



Of course people can compare the 980 and AMD's latest card but I just think it is a bit pointless, not only is the card over a year older but the price difference is £200+

Nice try with the price difference lol The 290x was more expensive on release, just because its worth peanuts now doesnt suddenly alter the hardware spec of the card. comical really.

 

[Nexus18]

Nice try with the price difference lol The 290x was more expensive on release, just because its worth peanuts now doesnt suddenly alter the hardware spec of the card. comical really.

I can't remember what the price of the 290(x) was on release but it was more expensive than the 980 on release? I find that very hard to believe....

Regardless of price (even though it does play a big part for 90% of people....), why compare the 980 to the 290(x)? The 290 is over a year older (which is a long time for the tech. world) than the 980 so of course it is going to be quite a bit worse than the 980 in certain areas, it is like comparing a 680 to a 290x, just utterly stupid and pointless. The 290(x) was brought out to compete with the 780(ti), not the 980.....

Not that there is really much point of having a discussion with someone who is blinded by their hatred for amd though

 

[Ayahuasca]

It's a pretty silly comparison and the Tessmark thing as Scone explained isn't that great anyway.

The 290x was around the same price as the 980 on release.

 

[Gregster]

Ahh man, that sucks! I never win anything anyway so I wouldn't have had a chance!

I'm glad to see there's a good set of tutorials and guides at the start. I think I will get this when I get paid, I need a game that will see me for a long time that I've never played.

You use a controller!?

I do use a controller (360 pad) and it works well with it.

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18485613

Well the thread was getting quite heated, so I tried to diffuse it. You have been quite active in this thread, so how are you finding the game? You know you can get it free with your Titan X (assuming you still have it of course).

 

[LambChop]

I can't remember what the price of the 290(x) was on release but it was more expensive than the 980 on release? I find that very hard to believe....

Regardless of price (even though it does play a big part for 90% of people....), why compare the 980 to the 290(x)? The 290 is over a year older (which is a long time for the tech. world) than the 980 so of course it is going to be quite a bit worse than the 980 in certain areas, it is like comparing a 680 to a 290x, just utterly stupid and pointless. The 290(x) was brought out to compete with the 780(ti), not the 980.....

Not that there is really much point of having a discussion with someone who is blinded by their hatred for amd though

You cannot simply bring price into it as a reason why AMD's tess performance is absolutely garbage. It's still the same garbage when the card was £500-ish. Just because you can get it for 10 fags and a can of coke now doesnt all of a sudden make tess performance worth it. As you're now looking at the age of the card as an excuse, the 780 which is also older tech still pumps the 290x.

I may hate AMD, but I dont talk ****e and make excuses.

 

[ginjaninja]

CD Projekt Red Petitioned To Add AMD TressFX Hair To The Witcher 3

 

[LambChop]

CD Projekt Red Petitioned To Add AMD TressFX Hair To The Witcher 3

I love the amount of times it said "PC gamers went on the offensive" - Erm, no they didnt, AMD fanboys went on the offensive because Nvidia effects wouldnt run on their hardware.

 

[elmarko]

To be fair, hairworks while it's nice for 99% of people isn't worth the FPS hit.

I'd much rather have everything else on max & upgrade my monitor over hair looking nice for a few specific situations. Really you need to be running well above 60fps before we can include these niceties.

 

[TaKeN]

I love the amount of times it said "PC gamers went on the offensive" - Erm, no they didnt, AMD fanboys went on the offensive because Nvidia effects wouldnt run on their hardware.

You obviously don't frequent reddit then, there are plenty of users from both sides of the GPU market who don't like the way things are heading.

Tech should be kept open so that both sides can get the best experience possible.

 

[Gregster]

CD Projekt Red Petitioned To Add AMD TressFX Hair To The Witcher 3

It would be cool if TressFX was added but hopefully it would be an option for NVidia users to use, unlike 50% of the other TressFX games.

 

[LambChop]

You obviously don't frequent reddit then, there are plenty of users from both sides of the GPU market who don't like the way things are heading.

Tech should be kept open so that both sides can get the best experience possible.

I actually agree with you on this, but its never going to happen.

 

[Nexus18]

You cannot simply bring price into it as a reason why AMD's tess performance is absolutely garbage. It's still the same garbage when the card was £500-ish. Just because you can get it for 10 fags and a can of coke now doesnt all of a sudden make tess performance worth it. As you're now looking at the age of the card as an excuse, the 780 which is also older tech still pumps the 290x.

I may hate AMD, but I dont talk ****e and make excuses.

I am not just talking about comparing tess. between the 980 and 290(x), but just in general, why people compare 2 very different cards? Assuming that we weren't getting new GPU's this year, do you really think most people would be willing to pay an extra £200+ for a card just because of its tess. performance (especially when in actual game performance, there isn't a huge difference unless the developer has added a ton of tess. which results in no real benefit to the visuals and they just did it for a certain purpose....)?

Again, did I say tess. performance was good for AMD?

But yes I won't disagree that the "current" (excluding the 285) AMD cards are super crap for tessellation compared to nvidia cards, even the 780 (released same year as the 290) is far better than the 290 for tess.

Anyway, we are just going to go round in circles, my main point was this:

But humbug has a point regarding the 285, it competes with a nvidia 760 in terms of overall performance in games and its tess. performance is a decent bit higher so I think it is safe to say that AMD's new lot of cards will be a lot better for tessellation, at least matching or even surpassing the 980/970 for tess., we will just have to wait and see....

As for this:

"PC gamers went on the offensive"

Most PC gamers went on the offensive side because of the downgrade in graphics, which affects all users.

I don't think many AMD users really care about hairworks tbh.

How many users have signed this petition?

As said above, you will find not just AMD users signing this petition but also nvidia users.

 

[Ayahuasca]

You obviously don't frequent reddit then, there are plenty of users from both sides of the GPU market who don't like the way things are heading.

Tech should be kept open so that both sides can get the best experience possible.

In a perfect world of course.

In a world driven by greed it's never going to work, look at pretty much any leader in a sector in the tech world and they all have software that's locked or only runs optimally on their own hardware.

 

[oldestgregg]

As a 780 user myself pretty much every game has been working as i expected with the exception of a few high profile nvidia gameworks titles such as borderlands 2 and 2.5(though 2.5 seems better) which had horrible physx performance even with a dedicated physx card(some areas a lot worse than others) and now witcher 3 which tanks the fps if i want to see rocks on the grounds and denser trees through the foliage option(dont care about hairworks to be honest but that tanks fps as well).

Also in Witcher 3 the game barely responds to any GPU overclocking so i can go from 1100 to 1300 core and see perhaps 2-3 fps which to me suggest a bottleneck somewhere else.

Im running 1x780 and a 4770k @4.6ghz on a 1400p monitor for the witcher 3 and it seems to run ok. I had to turn off hairworks and AA but nearly everything else is maxed except shadows which is high. I find for 3rd person games that I cant hit 60fps,use a pad. Makes it a whole lot smoother even at 40fps as the pan or lack of mouse look isnt as severe