CPU bottleneck confirmation

[urmom]

After posting about stuttering and fps drops i received lots of theories but the thread became longer and confusing so here is my setup including some info/changes i made along the way:

* MOTHERBOARD: Gigabyte H510M H 1.1 rev
- upgraded BIOS to latest F18
- Speccy link HERE
- theory about vrm overheat => TEMPS after 30 min game session

* CPU: Intel I5-10400F
- linpack tests: Benchmark / 8G, 2GB stress tests crashed pc about instantly
- game sessions with different overlays settings HERE and HERE (low video settings)
- Speccy link HERE
- PC-BUILDS bottleneck calculation with CPU priority tasks HERE (CS2 is CPU heavy)

* GPU: NVIDIA RTX 3060 8Go GDDR6, OpenGL 4.6, Microsoft® DirectX® 12, Vulkan API, NVIDIA GPU Boost™
- gpu was MSI overclocked, i undervolted it (after the videos) and i got aprox 50 less peak fps with same drops/stutters
- GPU-Z link HERE

* PSU: KOLINK
- pic HERE

* RAM: 16Go
- Speccy link HERE
- Memory status HERE
- Task manager performance HERE

* SSD: 1To NVMe

* CASE/FANS: KOLINK
- 3 frontal regulable ventilators + 1 in the back
- pics: FRONT / SIDE / REMOTE
suggestion to add 2X THIS on top

* STOCK CPU COOLER
suggested upgrade HERE

* MONITOR
- Speccy link HERE (g sync set up non existent in nvidia control panel)

If it is the CPU:

I originally wanted 230+ fps stability on 5v5 CS2 and correlated my stutters with when my fps dropped under 170 even tho i used a 144hz monitor..

I might later change to a 240hz but i could definitely just get a stable 144 fps without doing board upgrade (etc) as long as i dont fall for the bottleneck again, for example i got suggested the 11600K wich has 33.9% and the 11700k wich has 28.6%, and the best option 11900k doesnt go below 28%.

I dont know if these numbers really matter but to me it seems pretty close to my current bottleneck.

So do you think i have to upgrade my board (etc) to get rid of my bottleneck or can i get 144 stable fps just upgrading CPU?

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

@H2S04 - Wind it in

 

[Tetras]

I might later change to a 240hz but i could definitely just get a stable 144 fps without doing board upgrade (etc) as long as i dont fall for the bottleneck again, for example i got suggested the 11600K wich has 33.9% and the 11700k wich has 28.6%, and the best option 11900k doesnt go below 28%.

IF the CPU is what you need, I think the 11600K would be the best option, because your motherboard is going to be pushed pretty hard and I don't think it is suitable for running a 11900K.

The 11th gen CPUs have quite a lot lower single core/thread performance compared to the newer CPUs, so you'd really need the CPU to be cheap, for it to make sense.

The single thread number here is roughly applicable to your performance in CPU-bound games:

10400: 2572
11600K: 3357
12600K: 3955
13600K: 4161

Note: the 13600K is quite a lot better than the 12600K in CPU-bound games because of the cache changes (this does not apply to the 13400/13500 because they use the old cache config).

The reason the price of your upgrade matters a lot, is because of the performance of lower-end modern CPUs like the 12100, which are highly competitive with old high core count CPUs and very affordable with a cheap H610 or B760/B660 motherboard:
12100: 3432

I'd strongly recommend you watch YouTube videos (which are very plentiful for CS2) to get a good idea what the maximum performance is for your chosen CPU and GPU combination, at a given setting (e.g. 1080p Low).

So do you think i have to upgrade my board (etc) to get rid of my bottleneck or can i get 144 stable fps just upgrading CPU?

For 1080p (highest settings), the maximum achieved for a 3060 12GB (faster than your 8GB version) is 189.1 FPS here, but they don't give the lows.

In this video, for 1080p (High), the 1% low is above 144 only with a 7700 XT or better (the 6700 XT nearly hits it).

In this video, the 10400 hits 118.3 fps (0.1% low), 143.1 fps (1% low) and 223.2 fps (avg) and to break 144 fps consistently you need a 10700 or better.

- theory about vrm overheat => TEMPS after 30 min game session

These are fine.

 

[urmom]

IF the CPU is what you need

Then you are still unsure if thats the problem?

 

[mickyflinn]

Let me give to you straight, @Tetras has given you all the info but your not getting it.

From reading all the content on your multiple threads if you want better fps you can either upgrade your GPU , CPU or both.

Your CPU is at the limits of pushing the 3060 even if you put a better CPU in there the 3060 won't gain to many higher fps as the GPU isn't powerful enough.

Then there's memory speed which would give a slight bump in FPS moving up the scale but also other factors like game latency, power delivery, etc which adds variables.

In a word it's not a single solution answer .

My question is what would you upgrade if you had the choice ?

 

[Armageus]

I might later change to a 240hz but i could definitely just get a stable 144 fps without doing board upgrade (etc) as long as i dont fall for the bottleneck again, for example i got suggested the 11600K wich has 33.9% and the 11700k wich has 28.6%, and the best option 11900k doesnt go below 28%.

Stop looking at bottleneck calculator websites - they are about as accurate as me predicting the lottery numbers.


What RAM have you actually got?

Have you tried your GPU actually at stock volts/speeds rather than messing about with it (it may that whatever you've done is actually causing the stuttering)



Looking at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiqojNU-RBg&t=923s, the stuttering you are experiencing is probably just normal 1% and 0.1% lows - even considerably better CPUs than yours experience issues, just they have more outright performance to ensure those lows don't drop <144fps



I think you're trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist

 

[urmom]

Missclick didnt mean to post that yet i was still searching for all the stuff its a lot to learn and consider.

Basically im fairly new to gaming and firt timer on pc analytic, my game felt more and more laggy and i thought that came from seeing my fps drop below 180 or but i was on 144HZ monitor, only then i realized i that its not really what makes my

game so *****. When i was getting 220 on normal 5v5 that was what i tought was good and wanted to stabilize that range by upgrading.

My question is what would you upgrade if you had the choice ?

So if i can stabilize 144 fps just by upgrading CPU and RAM for example, or even cooler i would be ok: *** NO COMPETITOR LINKS ***

But if i can upgrade board etc not for not that much more money and get actually stable 144 fps + easier upgrades in the future i will go for that

 

[urmom]

Stop looking at bottleneck calculator websites - they are about as accurate as me predicting the lottery numbers.


What RAM have you actually got?

Have you tried your GPU actually at stock volts/speeds rather than messing about with it (it may that whatever you've done is actually causing the stuttering)



Looking at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiqojNU-RBg&t=923s, the stuttering you are experiencing is probably just normal 1% and 0.1% lows - even considerably better CPUs than yours experience issues, just they have more outright performance to ensure those lows don't drop <144fps



I think you're trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist

RAM info: Speccy / perf / mem status / HWINFO64 dual channel all i know 2X 8GB i think

Yes i did remove overclock and tested, undervolted it and tested, it dropped peak fps by about 50 but my goal was to stabilize at 144, the problem is the game still feels laggy repetitively no matter what and i still drop at or below 100, thats why i
thought something was really wrong with a component specifically.

Today i rechecked 1% lows after seeing these charts it seemed too odd that i got only 5-8 with msi overlay, i dowloaded capframeX and turns out its more between 50 - 70, that's still 70 less than on the chart.

I also ran furmark2 GPU test and CPU test for more info

 

[Armageus]

the problem is the game still feels laggy repetitively no matter what and i still drop at or below 100, thats why i thought something was really wrong with a component specifically.

Have you tried a different game? It could just be an issue with CS2 rather than a hardware issue.

 

[urmom]

Have you tried a different game? It could just be an issue with CS2 rather than a hardware issue.

yes i thought about that, not playing many games, that it could just be CS2 not optimized but its also on basic Minecraft game, like over 10 render distance its already buggy, even when fps doesnt drop, same as CS2

 

[urmom]

btw this pc is 8 months old, csgo was running good almost 200+ stabilized, then with the update more around 180, then i overcloked to reach 200+ after also some fix updates but then got these bugs and drops wich i cant seem to remove

 

[Armageus]

yes i thought about that, not playing many games, that it could just be CS2 not optimized

Nothing to do with CS2 not being optimized, there have been issues with CS2 (I specifically had a stuttering issue with an AMD card that was related to shader caching that needed an updated driver to resolve)

Stuttering on CS2 can also be related to mismatches between Refresh rate, fps cap (both in game and graphics drivers), and whether you're using GSync or not.

but its also on basic Minecraft game, like over 10 render distance its already buggy, even when fps doesnt drop, same as CS2

Minecraft isn't a good test of anything - try another real game.

RAM info: Speccy / perf / mem status / HWINFO64 dual channel all i know 2X 8GB i think

Take a stick of RAM out and actually post a picture of the sticker on the side of it please. No matter how many different screenshots you post doesn't show us what the actual physical hardware is - just what speed it's detected at.

 

[Tetras]

Then you are still unsure if thats the problem?

Yes.

1. It is not clear exactly what is happening and where/what the problem is, e.g. IS what you're experiencing just normal for your hardware? OR, is there is an actual issue that needs fixing.
and
2. IF the CPU is the problem, there's also this:

Your CPU is at the limits of pushing the 3060 even if you put a better CPU in there the 3060 won't gain to many higher fps as the GPU isn't powerful enough.

Then there's memory speed which would give a slight bump in FPS moving up the scale but also other factors like game latency, power delivery, etc which adds variables.

In a word it's not a single solution answer .

In other words: you're going to be bottlenecked if you upgrade the GPU, or bottlenecked if you upgrade the CPU and I don't have enough information from the benchmarks available to me, to reliably predict which upgrade is the best one.

I'd suggest you take the troubleshooting route being suggested above, so that we can identify if there is an actual problem, or if your hardware is performing normally.

Free benchmarks like 3D Mark Timespy and Cinebench will give you a comparable score and that's also helpful in identifying if your PC is working fine, or not.

 

[Craig_d1]

Missclick didnt mean to post that yet i was still searching for all the stuff its a lot to learn and consider.

Basically im fairly new to gaming and firt timer on pc analytic, my game felt more and more laggy and i thought that came from seeing my fps drop below 180 or but i was on 144HZ monitor, only then i realized i that its not really what makes my

game so *****. When i was getting 220 on normal 5v5 that was what i tought was good and wanted to stabilize that range by upgrading.

So if i can stabilize 144 fps just by upgrading CPU and RAM for example, or even cooler i would be ok: *** NO COMPETITOR LINKS *** (apart from cpu just top browsing results for examples)

But if i can upgrade board etc not for not that much more money and get actually stable 144 fps + easier upgrades in the future i will go for that

if you're going to upgrade board, cpu and ram. forget the 11th gen intel..it's old...also if you look at chart above, 11600 isn't that much more than a 10600..same cpu, just overclocked really....look at the the bottleneck it's causing with the 4090....you're getting 246fps, 1% low 157 and 0.1% 118, so you'll still get stutters...now compare that to the 7600, really bottom of stack for amd current gen...375fps, 224 1% and 185 for 0.1%
sorry, just reread and seen mobo not included, but just not convinced dropping 300euro is worth itat this point if this is your game of choice...upgrade your gpu again, and you'll be back in the same boat with the 11600....

 

[urmom]

Nothing to do with CS2 not being optimized, there have been issues with CS2 (I specifically had a stuttering issue with an AMD card that was related to shader caching that needed an updated driver to resolve)

Stuttering on CS2 can also be related to mismatches between Refresh rate, fps cap (both in game and graphics drivers), and whether you're using GSync or not.


Minecraft isn't a good test of anything - try another real game.



Take a stick of RAM out and actually post a picture of the sticker on the side of it please. No matter how many different screenshots you post doesn't show us what the actual physical hardware is - just what speed it's detected at.

My nvidia driver is up to date, didnt find that shader cashing driver only THIS from nvidia control panel, wich i set to 100 after deleting direct X cache a week ago following THIS video.

I recently capped cs2 via Riva Tuner at 144 and fps_max 160 on steam launch options, i am almost sure my monitor doesnt have gsync, at least no setup on nvidia Control panel

real game my point is that its said to be easy to run and it relies on single core CPU perf. What do you suggest, would COD warzone or another free game be ok? i have PUBG installed

RAM STICK

 

[H2S04]

CPU test for more info

thermal/power throttling. your stock cooler can not cope even 65w average.

i dont see your post cos its been deleted - no competitor links. but i can see above where Craig_d1 quoted. pls dont buy that 32 Crucial ram 68 euros. its laptop memory.

 

[urmom]

thermal/power throttling. your stock cooler can not cope even 65w average.

i dont see your post cos its been deleted - no competitor links. but i can see above where Craig_d1 quoted. pls dont buy that 32 Crucial ram 68 euros. its laptop memory.

ok my love just for you i wont <3

 

[H2S04]

My nvidia driver is up to date, didnt find that shader cashing driver only THIS from nvidia control panel, wich i set to 100 after deleting direct X cache a week ago following THIS video.

I recently capped cs2 via Riva Tuner at 144 and fps_max 160 on steam launch options, i am almost sure my monitor doesnt have gsync, at least no setup on nvidia Control panel

real game my point is that its said to be easy to run and it relies on single core CPU perf. What do you suggest, would COD warzone or another free game be ok? i have PUBG installed

RAM STICK

did u connect gpu to monitor with dp cable or hdmi.

 

[Armageus]

My nvidia driver is up to date, didnt find that shader cashing driver only THIS from nvidia control panel, wich i set to 100 after deleting direct X cache a week ago following THIS video.

I'm not saying that it is that, just that CS2 (and CSGo) before that have been well known for stuttering issues.

I recently capped cs2 via Riva Tuner at 144 and fps_max 160 on steam launch options, i am almost sure my monitor doesnt have gsync, at least no setup on nvidia Control panel

Your monitor should have AMD Freesync, which NVIDIA settings should still detect as GSync basic or something similar (can't remember the terminology), but as @H2S04 has said depends how your monitor is connected HDMI or DP?

real game my point is that its said to be easy to run and it relies on single core CPU perf. What do you suggest, would COD warzone or another free game be ok? i have PUBG installed

Yes minecraft is dependent on single core performance, but it's java based and there are all kinds of random oddities with it.

RAM STICK

The RAM is rubbish then - it's just generic ram chips, CL22! and explains why it doesn't manufacturer or SPD details in your screenshots

 

[urmom]

did u connect gpu to monitor with dp cable or hdmi.

HDMI