CRT 22" v's TFT

[Energize]

Flicker was eliminated years ago with monitors that refresh at over 60hz. Radiation they emit isn't damaging and peoples complaints of eye strain seem to be because they were running at 60hz or something stupid.

 

[HangTime]

If I was lucky enough to have a 22" CRT there's no way I'd be downgrading to a TFT. OK so if you can afford a bigger LCD like 30" or whatever then there's a reason to, but for serious gaming I'd stick with your current screen.

The beauty of a 22" CRT is that you get the full range of resolutions, from 320x200 all the way up to 2048x1536 with no 'native resolution' restrictions or similar. So no matter what graphics card you have or what game you are playing, you can simply adjust the rez to suit the performance level you desire.

 

[fish99]

My CRT used to give me eye strain and I only ever used it at 85 Hz (forced through video card drivers). They do still flicker even at that refresh rate. Persistence of vision means you can't easily percieve it, but it does have an affect on your eyes (or at least it did on mine) over a number of hours, especially in a dark room.

If you film a CRT with a video camera, you can see what your eyes miss, that inbetween refreshes each pixel is dropping back to black.

As for radiation, it's very low level but they do emit x-rays and the strong electromagnetic field could in theory cause cell damage. You do sit a lot closer to a CRT monitor than to a TV. Sure it's probably negligible, but like mobile phones, they haven't been around long enough or studied close enough to really establish if there might be some small risk over a number of years. They give some people headaches too and can trigger seizures in epileptics.

 

[Energize]

Crts these days can handle 100hz at least that fixes issues with headaches. Tft monitors also give off radiation.

 

[Final8y]

I haven't used this monitor, but have tried out a selection of high end tfts with various games. Ghosting isnt a problem any more, but I still notice textures blur when in motion. To my eyes it looks awful, even on the uber < 3ms screens.

Cool! full screen motion blur in games with out a FPS hit.

 

[Energize]

Cool! full screen motion blur in games with out a FPS hit.

Motion blur is actually used in some games to compensate for a low framerate.

 

[kaks]

would you think sli makes any diffrence as thats my current config ?

i've read that to get the best ot of sli then really u need to run @ 1600 x 1200 as a min in games bs or not ?

Have a look at benchmarks online and you will notice that SLI or Crossfire setups will run games at a similar FPS to single card solutions are normal resolutions like 1024 x 768. However, you will notice that the dual card setups drastically out perfrom single card setups at resolutions of 1600 x 1200 and 1920 x 1200..

The dual card solutions are basically restricted by the CPU at low resolutions.

 

[Final8y]

I'm yet to be convinced by SED as a concept. It's still firing electrons at a phosphor coated screen, so surely it will still suffer some of the drawbacks of CRTs, like flicker, eye strain and radiation. I know each pixel has it's own electron gun effectively, but they're still only fired once per refresh so they'll be pulsating between bright and dark just like a CRT pixel.

Still it's a step in the right direction, a CRT which doesn't take up tons of space and doesn't use tons of power (the main weaknesses of CRTs).

a lot of LCD monitors have an internal refresh rate of 85Hz but you see no flicker because only the changing parts of an image will alter the on & off state of a LCD pixel at 85Hz, even so at 85Hz its hard to see flicker even on crt.
So if you where looking at a webpage with pictures & embeded movie with an LCD that only had 30Hz internal refresh(exaggerated) the webpage would still not flicker as nothing needs changing but the embeded movie part of the page would even on LCD.

SED has it's own electron gun per phosphor so there is no reason why it cant stay on like LCD. where CRT has only 3 electron RGB guns for the whole screen & has to refresh the lot no matter what the state of image.

But Dead Gun could be a problem tho just like Dead Pixel.
EDIT. Thats not quite right as all emitted light filckers.

 

[Final8y]

Motion blur is actually used in some games to compensate for a low framerate.

Yeah funny that as the blurring its self knocks off even more fps.

 

[BloodWolf]

By the sounds of it, CTR is better.

 

[fish99]

a lot of LCD monitors have an internal refresh rate of 85Hz but you see no flicker because only the changing parts of an image will alter the on & off state of a LCD pixel at 85Hz, even so at 85Hz its hard to see flicker even on crt.
So if you where looking at a webpage with pictures & embeded movie with an LCD that only had 30Hz internal refresh(exaggerated) the webpage would still not flicker as nothing needs changing but the embeded movie part of the page would even on LCD.

SED has it's own electron gun per phosphor so there is no reason why it cant stay on like LCD. where CRT has only 3 electron RGB guns for the whole screen & has to refresh the lot no matter what the state of image.

But Dead Gun could be a problem tho just like Dead Pixel.
EDIT. Thats not quite right as all emitted light filckers.

Baddass keeps telling me most LCDs internally work at 60 Hz, even when you put them in a higher refresh rate. Anyway, you missed the point. An LCD pixel is always emitting light, it's a consistent and constant stream of photons. There's no pulsating between the intended colour and black. A CRT pixel is fired once per refresh and drops back to black inbetween firings.

Film a CRT with a video camera and it'll pick up the black screens even when your eyes can't.

Of course an SED could be constantly firing electrons rather than just at refreshes, but that would wear out the phosphor much quicker so I doubt it. It doesn't matter whether you have 3 electron guns or 3 million if each pixel is only fired once per refresh.

Anyway, hardly a big deal and wouldn't put me off buying one. Like I said the main weaknesses of CRT tech for me are size and power consumption. Just I'm not convinced SED will kill off LCDs.

 

[devilkazuya]

i play high level competitve fps online, and have done since 1999, and have vast knowledge of the community.

Let there be no doubt that all the competitive players almost without fail, opt for crt over tft. The difference is astounding between the two. I tried out quake3 which i run at 125fps on my crt, and then tried it out on my 8ms tft. When i went back to the crt, i was blown away at how smooth it suddenly appeared to me. The tft was both blurring and cutting out half the frames. Think about it, a crt set to a refresh rate of 120, with every pixel unlighting immediately before the next update displaying all the information intended crisply. Then think about a tft scaling down the desired 125fps to 60fps regardless of the gfx cards output, as this is what they do. At even semi-high level of competitive gaming this just doesn't cut it.

My Sun Microsystems 22inch monitor uses the sony trinitron tube, and the colour output accuracy is truly excellent. I studied graphics/illustration/animation at university and have a very good understanding of colour representation, and can say that tfts have never had particularly good colour representation. People who aren't really in the know about colour accuracy when it's in front of them usually just see the brightness of the colour on some tfts and interpret this as good. they simply aren't accurate and do not have the colour depth to match a decent crt let alone a high end one.

The only genuine advantages of a tft at this moment in time are, less power consumption from the mains, less desk space, easier to read text on webpages because of defined pixels. It ends there until technology improves.

In general i find people who have decided to buy tfts to blindly support them to justify their purchase. I have an excellent crt, and what is supposed to be a very good tft, the crt wins out every time, and trust me i wish it was the tft that was better as my crt is massive and heavy.

 

[Final8y]

Baddass keeps telling me most LCDs internally work at 60 Hz, even when you put them in a higher refresh rate. Anyway, you missed the point. An LCD pixel is always emitting light, it's a consistent and constant stream of photons. There's no pulsating between the intended colour and black. A CRT pixel is fired once per refresh and drops back to black inbetween firings.

Film a CRT with a video camera and it'll pick up the black screens even when your eyes can't.

Of course an SED could be constantly firing electrons rather than just at refreshes, but that would wear out the phosphor much quicker so I doubt it. It doesn't matter whether you have 3 electron guns or 3 million if each pixel is only fired once per refresh.

Anyway, hardly a big deal and wouldn't put me off buying one. Like I said the main weaknesses of CRT tech for me are size and power consumption. Just I'm not convinced SED will kill off LCDs.

Actually that was the point i was making that the lcd backlight is always on & the crt is not.
The backlight in LCD`s is always on, so SED always on should not matter even if it cut the lifespan.

If you only have 3 guns then there is no other way to charge the phosphor than to scan refresh. SED does not have that limitation but for other reason like lifespan & technical they may do so.

Its a fact that all light has a wavelength & flickers.

I have to read up on SED a bit more.. i fear that it could have the same native res characteristics as lcd.

 

[Final8y]

i play high level competitve fps online, and have done since 1999, and have vast knowledge of the community.

Let there be no doubt that all the competitive players almost without fail, opt for crt over tft. The difference is astounding between the two. I tried out quake3 which i run at 125fps on my crt, and then tried it out on my 8ms tft. When i went back to the crt, i was blown away at how smooth it suddenly appeared to me. The tft was both blurring and cutting out half the frames. Think about it, a crt set to a refresh rate of 120, with every pixel unlighting immediately before the next update displaying all the information intended crisply. Then think about a tft scaling down the desired 125fps to 60fps regardless of the gfx cards output, as this is what they do. At even semi-high level of competitive gaming this just doesn't cut it.

My Sun Microsystems 22inch monitor uses the sony trinitron tube, and the colour output accuracy is truly excellent. I studied graphics/illustration/animation at university and have a very good understanding of colour representation, and can say that tfts have never had particularly good colour representation. People who aren't really in the know about colour accuracy when it's in front of them usually just see the brightness of the colour on some tfts and interpret this as good. they simply aren't accurate and do not have the colour depth to match a decent crt let alone a high end one.

The only genuine advantages of a tft at this moment in time are, less power consumption from the mains, less desk space, easier to read text on webpages because of defined pixels. It ends there until technology improves.

In general i find people who have decided to buy tfts to blindly support them to justify their purchase. I have an excellent crt, and what is supposed to be a very good tft, the crt wins out every time, and trust me i wish it was the tft that was better as my crt is massive and heavy.

EDIT: With LCD`s I find dark details to be translucent at times and look like stained glass.

With my 2 viewsonic P227fB CRT`s i can refresh at 150Hz at 1024x768 (less tearing) and all the way to 1600x1200 at 100Hz & peaks out at 2028x1536 at 70Hz wich is perfect as i dont like gaming under 60fps if i can help it.

 

[Mark A]

Do you think the viewsonic P227fB is the best 22" CRT out there at the moment?.

Ive never noticed any problem with dark details on my Hyundai CRT 19" monitor, Ive played Doom 3 and it looks great all the way through. I run my monitor at 1280x1024 and have the refresh rate at 85Hz and have never noticed any flicker or got headaches or anything. When i change my gfx card drivers and it reboots at 60hz my eyes feel weird and you can see the screen flickering but once Ive put it up to 85hz its fine. I cant wait for SED if it is as good as it sounds, I'll be able to get a 30" monitor for my PC and Xbox 360, will probably have to sell my soul but it'll be worth it .

Mark

 

[Energize]

Its a 21" monitor, its not widescreen though if your looking for that. Very high res though and minute dot pitch at 0.2mm.

 

[Cir108]

I’m a 4 ft dwarf whose previous wife was also a 4 footer. I then got hitched up to a 4.5 ft girlie and I think she’s the best in the world. Look at those legs, they are waaayy better than the stumps my wife has …. and more, can’t wait to tell you guys.

The other day, I went from my local Gnome’s Head to a real pub and there was this 5ft 8 … waaaa…. This cannot be for I do know everything, especially because I happen to work in a gnome’s hypermarket. That bimbo must be a bloody Hollywood fake con job for there is nothing similar at our hypershop. The gall of it, con men pretending to be saints.

There’s a colloquial saying amongst those dumb chinamen that I heard once and it goes something like, “If you’ve never seen a big snake, you’ve never seen big snake ***p..” and when you do see one, it’s waaa…. Another saying goes like, “Around every hill, you’ll see another bigger hill..”. Nuff said about gnomes, snakes and hills. To each his own for judgement is for ourself and not for others for then, you won’t need to compare and when we do that, satisfaction enters and not the baiting glitzy lights of that fake hollywood bimbo.

 

[subzero]

I’m a 4 ft dwarf whose previous wife was also a 4 footer. I then got hitched up to a 4.5 ft girlie and I think she’s the best in the world. Look at those legs, they are waaayy better than the stumps my wife has …. and more, can’t wait to tell you guys.

The other day, I went from my local Gnome’s Head to a real pub and there was this 5ft 8 … waaaa…. This cannot be for I do know everything, especially because I happen to work in a gnome’s hypermarket. That bimbo must be a bloody Hollywood fake con job for there is nothing similar at our hypershop. The gall of it, con men pretending to be saints.

There’s a colloquial saying amongst those dumb chinamen that I heard once and it goes something like, “If you’ve never seen a big snake, you’ve never seen big snake ***p..” and when you do see one, it’s waaa…. Another saying goes like, “Around every hill, you’ll see another bigger hill..”. Nuff said about gnomes, snakes and hills. To each his own for judgement is for ourself and not for others for then, you won’t need to compare and when we do that, satisfaction enters and not the baiting glitzy lights of that fake hollywood bimbo.

huh,whats that you say

 

[HangTime]

I don't know they serve at the Gnome's Head, but I definitely want some

 

[Sean_UK]

In general i find people who have decided to buy tfts to blindly support them to justify their purchase. I have an excellent crt, and what is supposed to be a very good tft, the crt wins out every time.

I'd have to agree, shame is CRT's dont seem to have much of a shelf life anymore, even at 19" upwards they seem to be drying up. Glad i purchased mine a year back and dont intend to replace it soon tbh.