Cycling
- Thread starter Cosimo
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I really like the track cycling events, but Ive watched all the road races I can so far and the brits just havent turned up , so Im starting to think I should try and NOT watch the track events so we might medal (or even get gold in a few)
I dont think I have seen any "live" events (all of 6 admittedly so far) where GB have got a medal
Going to bee watching the Rugby 7's tonight....see if the above holds true (to qualify for the 1/4's at least)
Whats wrong in saying the brits havent turned up (given we had a triple tour de France winner in the Mens team and a reasonably strong women's team)
Im all for the younger athletes just going for experience, and I will cheer them on just as strongly, but when a favourite doesnt even get close to the medals its a fair comment to make
(also very happy for the likes of Peaty and now Joe Clarke who actually come more into the national concience by winning gold, or a couple of the other swimmers who do storming performances for silver)
Caporegime
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Frome wasn't really seen as a favourite at least for the road race, the problem seems to be you assume he should be because he won the tour. But if you give your all in the tour and you peak for the year in the tour it's hard to be at your best in the olympics.
On top of that Sky have really torn the TdF up, they've made it more of a team sport than it ever used to be. There is a reason Wiggins doesn't race and didn't win 4, the team decides who wins to a large degree because they race in a way to give their guy a massive shot with great team riders sacrificing themselves more than other teams are willing to. To a large degree afaik sky pay more to better 'team' riders to get the designated winner to the end.
In the Olympics the teams are tiny by comparison and Frome wasn't about winning multiple stages in the tour but winning the overall. The track didn't favour him on a one day race, he's never excelled in one day races, he's not known for or expected to win one day races.
Brits haven't turned up, or you don't actually know a lot about Froome and you decided he was a favourite when he never was? Several of the favourites for the time trial dropped out of the road race pretty early on specifically to maximise their chance of the time trial. Cancellara finished miles behind Froome in the road race, 7-8 minutes iirc.
If either the road race or time trial had tracks more suited to Froome, maybe some tougher/longer/higher climbs for him to pull a lead out on then maybe. But compared to the TdF, Froome wasn't in remotely the same position team/tactics/single stage wise to be favourite.
On top of that Sky have really torn the TdF up, they've made it more of a team sport than it ever used to be. There is a reason Wiggins doesn't race and didn't win 4, the team decides who wins to a large degree because they race in a way to give their guy a massive shot with great team riders sacrificing themselves more than other teams are willing to. To a large degree afaik sky pay more to better 'team' riders to get the designated winner to the end.
In the Olympics the teams are tiny by comparison and Frome wasn't about winning multiple stages in the tour but winning the overall. The track didn't favour him on a one day race, he's never excelled in one day races, he's not known for or expected to win one day races.
Brits haven't turned up, or you don't actually know a lot about Froome and you decided he was a favourite when he never was? Several of the favourites for the time trial dropped out of the road race pretty early on specifically to maximise their chance of the time trial. Cancellara finished miles behind Froome in the road race, 7-8 minutes iirc.
If either the road race or time trial had tracks more suited to Froome, maybe some tougher/longer/higher climbs for him to pull a lead out on then maybe. But compared to the TdF, Froome wasn't in remotely the same position team/tactics/single stage wise to be favourite.
He hasn't just won the tour once though, he has won it three times which imo is a significant difference.
According to Boardman (who should know) he was most definitely a favourite at the start of the race, so I didn't assume anything at all I just listened to what an expert told me and the co-commentator (rather than someone assuming what I knew on a forum without asking)
If anything the road race was better associated to his skills than the time trial (because other people in the british team like Cavendish are MUCH more well known for time trials than Froome is
I cant even work out if you're being sarcastic or not
Firstly, cavendish isnt even in the road team. Secondly...what?! Cavendish doesnt time trial.
Caporegime
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If you're talking about the road race, Boardman most certainly didn't call him favourite, throughout the race he was saying he's not at all known for one days. He's only ever won a single one day and I think by the way he said it, it's a smaller one without much competition or something along those lines.
Again though the track wasn't good for him, his best rides in the TdF were doing amazing climbs where he pulled away from the pack but that was still mostly against the peleton/other overall competitors there were often break aways in front of him.
Cavendish is much more known for time trials than Froome? Cavendish himself will say he can't do time trials, he's a freaking sprinter. Cav and Froome are guys who win stages or tours because their team sacrifice themselves to get them in position to do either. Without a team(like a time trial or one day) neither are anywhere near as strong.
As said, a lot of the guys focusing on the time trial were dropping out of the road race to not take anything out of themselves. Froome did okay in both because he wasn't too likely to win either. He could have dropped out of the race after 20km like others did, or gone as slowly as Cancellara did. He at no stage of either looked strong enough to win.
Also again, winning 3 or 55 TdF's means precisely nothing when it comes to the olympic single day race. You can win every TdF ever and never win a stage. TdF is about stamina, endurance and ability to survive multiple stages and do the overall faster. Being fastest over one day and being fastest over more than a week are entirely different things. In terms of a single day race compared to an entire tour, you're talking about 1600m vs marathon, one is a sprint, one is a long endurance race. Oh and if Froome is a marathon guy, and Wiggins is a 1600m specialist, Cav is the 100m guy, nothing else. He's an amazing sprinter but if you think he's going to win time trials or tours, wow. His teams get him to the final say 100-500m max then release him from their slipstream and he goes full on Bolt on top of a bike to the line.
Again though the track wasn't good for him, his best rides in the TdF were doing amazing climbs where he pulled away from the pack but that was still mostly against the peleton/other overall competitors there were often break aways in front of him.
Cavendish is much more known for time trials than Froome? Cavendish himself will say he can't do time trials, he's a freaking sprinter. Cav and Froome are guys who win stages or tours because their team sacrifice themselves to get them in position to do either. Without a team(like a time trial or one day) neither are anywhere near as strong.
As said, a lot of the guys focusing on the time trial were dropping out of the road race to not take anything out of themselves. Froome did okay in both because he wasn't too likely to win either. He could have dropped out of the race after 20km like others did, or gone as slowly as Cancellara did. He at no stage of either looked strong enough to win.
Also again, winning 3 or 55 TdF's means precisely nothing when it comes to the olympic single day race. You can win every TdF ever and never win a stage. TdF is about stamina, endurance and ability to survive multiple stages and do the overall faster. Being fastest over one day and being fastest over more than a week are entirely different things. In terms of a single day race compared to an entire tour, you're talking about 1600m vs marathon, one is a sprint, one is a long endurance race. Oh and if Froome is a marathon guy, and Wiggins is a 1600m specialist, Cav is the 100m guy, nothing else. He's an amazing sprinter but if you think he's going to win time trials or tours, wow. His teams get him to the final say 100-500m max then release him from their slipstream and he goes full on Bolt on top of a bike to the line.
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technically speaking whats the difference between the non-climb parts of the TdeF and a time trial (which Cavendish seems to specialise in given he has won so many over the years)
Surely a sprint IS a time-trial (and usually, if not always, not considered "a climb")
edit - think Ive answered my own question in that because of the "team" element , there are team colleagues helping sprinters through the stage and a time-trialist is completely solo?
As I said before: Cavendish is not a time trialist. He doesnt win time trials, you're either confusing him with another rider or you've misunderstood what "time trial" means.
That's part of it, yes. A rider will be riding alone in a time trial. There's so much more to it than that though: it's entirely different from road sprinting (which Cavendish is known for)
Back on topic, I'm loving the onboard cameras here! It's good to see the various youtube videos from the onboards of the TdF and things - it's good to have it live during the race though.
Olympic record in sprint qualifying. That'll do nicely. Chris who?
Well NZ just took that record but we're meeting them in the final to race for gold.