David Cameron is going to try and ban encryption in Britain

scorza · 2 Jul 2015 at 10:48

Amp34 said:
We live in the UK. The number of terrorist attacks have decreased significantly over the last 10-15 years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain

Let's not let facts get in the way eh.

We might live in the UK but we're targets worldwide - the latest Tunisia attack demonstrated that. Then you have British terrorists like Jihadi John commiting atrocities in Syria. British security services have a duty to try and stop these attacks and we should be trying to make it easy for them, and difficult for the terrorists not the other way around.

If you have any facts relevant to the debate then I'll be glad to consider them.

arknor · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:18

scorza said:
We might live in the UK but we're targets worldwide - the latest Tunisia attack demonstrated that. Then you have British terrorists like Jihadi John commiting atrocities in Syria. British security services have a duty to try and stop these attacks and we should be trying to make it easy for them, and difficult for the terrorists not the other way around.

If you have any facts relevant to the debate then I'll be glad to consider them.

and these attacks on foreign soil are planned within the uk over whatsapp? or is this snoopers charter not even relevant to them

Deleted member 77746 · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:21

jsmoke said:
It's a vicious circle. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

Indeed, more than one side to every story...

Scania · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:22

Cosimo said:
This gets recycled more times than my rubbish and the smell gets worse each time it pops up.

Sounds like you need to empty your recycle bin more often.

anything I don't mind · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:29

I bet David still wants his encryption though. Encryption for them and not for the peasants.

Whitewater · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:36

Haggisman said:
Lets have a look at those naked pictures your wife sent you then?

Since you don't have an issue with your private information becoming public

It's naive to assume that private information put online remains private, so I don't - encrypted or otherwise - upload or post anything I wouldn't be happy to be in the public domain.

The systems I rely on to be private (banking, utility bills, etc.) are not within the reach of David Cameron's plans.

scorza · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:37

arknor said:
and these attacks on foreign soil are planned within the uk over whatsapp? or is this snoopers charter not even relevant to them

Maybe some of them are. I don't know and neither do you. I am sure that there's enough terrorist chatter in UK communities for it to of interest to the security services.

C.R.A.Z.Y · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:40

“They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

Benjamin Franklin, Memoirs of the life & writings of Benjamin Franklin

Nail -- head

Danthus · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:41

arknor said:
and these attacks on foreign soil are planned within the uk over whatsapp? or is this snoopers charter not even relevant to them

What about attacks on UK soil that are planned in foreign countries?

Belly · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:41

Richdog said:
Terrorism is rapidly becoming the world biggest excuse top break down civil liberties. Considering how little it actually affects us in daily life, rare and actual attacks notwithstanding, many of the measures are just unnecessary imo.

True but......Just imagine yourself kneeling down in your orange jump suit with a camera crew in front of you and next to you is some guy with an English accent wearing a balaclava (you recognise him because he is the same guy who thrust a litre sized coke bottle up your rectum the night before and made you eat out of a filthy West Midlands' toilet) he brandishing a large kitchen knife and you're asked to criticise your own government before you get beheaded......

Well Richdog would you criticise the government if you knew that they could have decrypted the message sent from one terrorist to another which might have averted your capture but didn't do so because it broke down civil liberties? You would have to criticise them for something, otherwise it's back to the coke bottle, cancel the film crew until another fine day. Just a thought.

OhEsEcks · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:43

Amp34 · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:44

Moses said:
Cool story bro. In other news, the head of the Met says,

"And some of these cases are going to court".

And almost all will be let off due to lack of evidence/ the jury not believing the story. At least using past results.

Either the police are inept at evidence collection, beig overly heavily handed with "terrorism" legislation or stupid people are really good at hiding evidence so they can't get convicted.

The biggest terror trial recently appears to be one where two people were trying to buy a gun and had an address of Tony Blair in their car when they were pulled over. Last I heard both convictoins were quashed...

It's probably a mix of all three tbh, not enough evidence to convict someone when all they may have done was talk about blowing something up, or just buying some materials and trying to make explosives.

C.R.A.Z.Y · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:44

OldCoals said:
What about attacks on UK soil that are planned in foreign countries?

And you think banning encryption will stop this :confused:

Are the terrorists going to suddenly go, hold up guys they have stumped us now call off ALL attacks?? :rolleyes:

They will simply go old school and plan attacks face-to-face like they use to do before encryption even existed!

[FnG]magnolia · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:46

Belly said:
True but......Just imagine yourself kneeling down in your orange jump suit with a camera crew in front of you and next to you is some guy with an English accent wearing a balaclava (you recognise him because he is the same guy who thrust a litre sized coke bottle up your rectum the night before and made you eat out of a filthy West Midlands' toilet) he brandishing a large kitchen knife and you're asked to criticise your own government before you get beheaded......

Well Richdog would you criticise the government if you knew that they could have decrypted the message sent from one terrorist to another which might have averted your capture but didn't do so because it broke down civil liberties? You would have to criticise them for something, otherwise it's back to the coke bottle, cancel the film crew until another fine day. Just a thought.

I would not watch this film.

Amp34 · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:48

Moses said:
It's not saying there won't be encryption .

How will it make normal people's lives more difficult? You'd use Whatsapp in exactly the same way. You'd use iMessage in exactly the same way. You'd use Gmail in exactly the same way.

The reason companies have started encrypting this data is because of bulk data collection, much of which has been deemed either unlawful or illegal in the last year or so. You would probably use the service in the same way but the companies have a legal requirement to protect your data.

stopper · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:52

MagicBoy said:
Business Insider is clickbait. Show me a credible source please.

Who would you consider a credible source? The BBC? (lol)

C.R.A.Z.Y · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:53

Belly said:
True but......Just imagine yourself kneeling down in your orange jump suit with a camera crew in front of you and next to you is some guy with an English accent wearing a balaclava (you recognise him because he is the same guy who thrust a litre sized coke bottle up your rectum the night before and made you eat out of a filthy West Midlands' toilet) he brandishing a large kitchen knife and you're asked to criticise your own government before you get beheaded......

Well Richdog would you criticise the government if you knew that they could have decrypted the message sent from one terrorist to another which might have averted your capture but didn't do so because it broke down civil liberties? You would have to criticise them for something, otherwise it's back to the coke bottle, cancel the film crew until another fine day. Just a thought.

Wow! The fear-mongering has worked a treat on you!!
I can't believe how impressionable and irrational many people are today, I'm heading off to West Africa in a couple of weeks and nearly everyone I tell think I'm crazy and keep going on about me catching ebola or having my head chopped off by some crazed terrorist :rolleyes:

jimjamuk · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:57

This is a non event - move along please

Amp34 · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:58

scorza said:
We might live in the UK but we're targets worldwide - the latest Tunisia attack demonstrated that. Then you have British terrorists like Jihadi John commiting atrocities in Syria. British security services have a duty to try and stop these attacks and we should be trying to make it easy for them, and difficult for the terrorists not the other way around.

If you have any facts relevant to the debate then I'll be glad to consider them.

Do you have any evidence to suggest that worldwide terrorist attacks are becoming more frequent? Or do you just believe that actions are increasing because there is more action in the Middle East.

Id also question how this legislation would be able to thwart worldwide terrorist actions that may (or may not) affect british citizens. Unfortunately UK legislation stops at the border. It's another prime example of the phrase "using a sledgehammer to crack a nut".

You are right, the British security services do have a duty of care, and so do the companies looking after yor data. Warrantless action was the cause of this recent increase in encryption and warrantless action forcing companies to secretly hand over encryption keys is the reason for them removing their ability to decrypt messages.

Unfortunately past government/security service actions (and their subsequent exposure by Snowdon) are the root cause of the increase of encryption by these companies.

Richdog · 2 Jul 2015 at 11:58

Belly said:
True but......Just imagine yourself kneeling down in your orange jump suit with a camera crew in front of you and next to you is some guy with an English accent wearing a balaclava (you recognise him because he is the same guy who thrust a litre sized coke bottle up your rectum the night before and made you eat out of a filthy West Midlands' toilet) he brandishing a large kitchen knife and you're asked to criticise your own government before you get beheaded......

Well Richdog would you criticise the government if you knew that they could have decrypted the message sent from one terrorist to another which might have averted your capture but didn't do so because it broke down civil liberties? You would have to criticise them for something, otherwise it's back to the coke bottle, cancel the film crew until another fine day. Just a thought.

If it is not encryption, it would be something else. No matter what technologies exist and are then broken, new ones will emerge and spies and terrorists with the correct skills will always find a way around something, just as they have been doing for centuries in any equivalent situation.

As for your highly theoretical situation regarding me being captured due to governments lack of encryption breaking... you are correct... it is a "thought".