David De Gea - is he good enough?

atpbx said:
In the long term it would be better if he was playing behind a competent defence before making half arsed judgements about his suposed failings.
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Personally I think that a lot of goalkeeping is luck when it comes down the the finer points. When De Gea makes a fantastic reaction save and the deflection takes it into the path of an attacker, thats bad luck. I would rather concede 9 out of 10 of those that he saves rather than have a keeper that misses all 10 because they don't make the first save.

I never remember VDS having any negative comments on his ability and yet he never made as many spectacular saves, still made mistakes and was playing with one of the most solid and dependable defences around at the time.

De Gea is very young, new country, huge expectations, different style of football and a weak defence most weeks that can have 3 or more different defenders to the last game. I really hope we keep him because you can work on crosses and other parts where he is not so strong but its rare to find a keeper that improves their shot stopping to the level De Gea has now.
 
atpbx said:
So united would have been better off losing 2-1 than drawing 1-1 against Spurs?

What nonsense is this?

In the long term it would be better if he was playing behind a competent defence before making half arsed judgements about his suposed failings.
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Your judgement is less half arsed? Oh ok.

The point I was making (and that you completely missed) was that in the long run the basics, predictability and sound judgement are much more important in a goalie than reflex saves. Reflex saves are a bonus to any goalkeeper but should not be the foundation behind choosing them.

De Gea may be amazing in the future but he is nowhere near good enough for Man Utd now because his performance of the goalkeeping basics is so unpredictable week to week.
 
De Gea reminds me a lot of David 'Calamity' James, but without the physicality and commanding presence. Good goalkeeper, just seems to switch off at crucial moments.
 
To compare him to the like of David James is a disservice to the lad.

I’m going to probably be told I’m daft for this but the only keeper I would swap for De Gea is Neuer, and the reason is he has better distribution and presence than De Gea, but then again he’s 5 years older.

De Gea is widely acknowledged as an excellent shot stopper, he makes saves which other lesser keepers will not make. He is making mistakes, but this is because we are defending far too deep all the time, due to the lack of legs at the back. This will change as Vidic (fingers crossed) gets fit.

To say De Gea is a quiet keeper is also incorrect, he never stops talking during a game; this issue with language is only going to get easier for him as time goes by. The chopping and changing of a back 4 is a huge problem.


Do you know who got IFFHS' World's Best Goalkeeper of the Year in 2000?

Fabien Barthez!

He was world class, but then became a clown in 12 months. This was because of the Jaap Stam debacle. The point is when a goalkeeper knows his CB’s he is confident in their ability and knows when to come and not. Barthez knew Stam would win every header so would only come for high balls without pressure, as soon Stamleft and we chopped and changed he started coming for ball he had no chanc e of getting, and he fell apart. David De Gea has different players in form of him every week, and this isn’t a helping, thought his judgement is improving with time.

And before anyone comments about Goalkeepers should come for everything, Neville Southall was regarded as one of the best but he never come out of his 6 yard box, he has two dopey CB winning everything in the air he didn’t need too.

I also think it is very harsh having a go at this parrying “problem”, the goal against Liverpool was a fabulous first save, and the fact Rafael switched off, just like he did against Bilboa last year means we’ve conceded another soft goal

Despite this, I still think his biggest strength has been over looked by everyone. His distribution is by far the best in the premier league. Like VDS he is comfortable with the ball at his feet, there is no other keeper in the English football that is anywhere near him. Reina used to be fabulous playing the sweeper role, but watching him at OT the other week his kicking was shocking I don’t know what’s happened. In comparison to DDG Joe Hart’s distribution is poor, next time City are chasing a game watch his kicking it become rushed and inaccurate. (I do think hes a great keeper too btw but I don’t think his distribution is up to scratch)

I’m not saying he is finished article, but at 22 years of age can you think of a comparable keeper at his level? VDS at Ajax, Casillas at Real, Buffon at Juve there aren’t many more.

I also know Cech will be mentioned but as a young keeper but he wasn’t playing is a team with such a soft underbelly as the current United team, and his back 4 was consistent with Makele protecting them.

Sorry for the essay but I think he's getting a bad press when its not deserved.
 
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Both those things are evident, Rafael has improved, but his mistakes are usually huge, massively out of position rather than a little. De Gea is quality, the best keepers coming out to get crosses, not always, but are usually weaker at other parts of their game.

Coming to get crosses isn't a de facto part of keeping, some keepers do it, others don't, some are great at it, others aren't.

Defences play in different ways, people have a go at Given for not coming out for crosses, but if you have defenders who are better than the keeper at winning crosses, why on earth would you put the keeper out of position when the CB has a better chance.

I said earlier that an established back four does more for a defence than any individual component, look at Newcastle last year, Santon isn't particularly good I don't think, Simpson is barely average, Colo is half decent but not brilliant IMHO and Taylor(s) certainly aren't great, but having the same 4, a keeper who knows exactly how the back four will react, all adds up to a solid defence.

Arsenal, champs league defensive record for lack of conceding with Cygan, Senderos, Flamini and I always forget, but think it was Lauren.... the main thing was because of injury these guys played basically every game for a while and worked as a unit brilliantly, while most people think Cygan and Senderos are crap.

For me Vidic is both, highly over rated but most importantly, a bit of a sick note now, Ferdy has had a very poor fitness record over the past few years. If you want De Gea to improve... its by selling Vidic while he has ANY value left(maybe get 5mil now, in 3 years he'll be worth nothing), Ferdy, already worth nothing, and buy two new CB's.

Jones both hasn't forfilled his promise, and Smalling looks better but the biggest problem, is both are constantly injured also. Two average CB's who can play 60 games a season will do more for De Gea than anything else. If Utd fans think a new keeper, playing with a constantly changing defence will look better, they're in for a shock.

Settled defence is the key to both Utd's conceding problem this year, and De Gea's "mistakes", replacing the keeper would leave the same problem and another keeper fans would tear down for no reason at all.
 
drunkenmaster said:
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...."Defences play in different ways, people have a go at Given for not coming out for crosses, but if you have defenders who are better than the keeper at winning crosses, why on earth would you put the keeper out of position when the CB has a better chance."
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I think youve rasied a couple of good points there, but i think your point about Given is a little off target, Given never played for a Top class side becasue he was a good shot stopper but there are more areas than just his ability to claim a cross that let him down.


drunkenmaster said:
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"For me Vidic is both, highly over rated but most importantly, a bit of a sick note now, Ferdy has had a very poor fitness record over the past few years. If you want De Gea to improve... its by selling Vidic while he has ANY value left(maybe get 5mil now, in 3 years he'll be worth nothing), Ferdy, already worth nothing, and buy two new CB's.

Jones both hasn't forfilled his promise, and Smalling looks better but the biggest problem, is both are constantly injured also. Two average CB's who can play 60 games a season will do more for De Gea than anything else."
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I think this is a bit of an over reaction, we have 2 CB's who have consistently been amognst the best partnerships in europe for teh last 5 years, until injury come into play in the last 12 months or so. Also Ferdinand played 30 games in the league last year and this season has played 18 out of 23, which is 3 more than Kompany.

And to say two centre half's haven't fullfilled they're potential at 23 (Smalling) and 20 (Jones) is a bit of a premature observation.
 
Leaffy said:
I think this is a bit of an over reaction, we have 2 CB's who have consistently been amognst the best partnerships in europe for teh last 5 years, until injury come into play in the last 12 months or so. Also Ferdinand played 30 games in the league last year and this season has played 18 out of 23, which is 3 more than Kompany.

And to say two centre half's haven't fullfilled they're potential at 23 (Smalling) and 20 (Jones) is a bit of a premature observation.
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But that's 2 years ago, and 2-3 seasons of a great partnership, both are the wrong side of age and injury, do you expect them to come close to the level they were at 4 years ago? No chance, age gets us all, even more so players who are plagued by injury, such as Rio across the last 2 years and more recently Vidic.

DM is spot on with our back 4, for the past 2 season's it's been shakier than Michael J Fox. This isn't going to be resolved by sticking with injury prone players, Both Smalling and Jones deserve squad positions right now and the chance to become CB's eventually, but their injury record make that currently improbable. We need a very good CB bringing in now to secure it up a bit.
 
shipinabottle said:
But that's 2 years ago, and 2-3 seasons of a great partnership, both are the wrong side of age and injury, do you expect them to come close to the level they were at 4 years ago? No chance, age gets us all, even more so players who are plagued by injury, such as Rio across the last 2 years and more recently Vidic.

DM is spot on with our back 4, for the past 2 season's it's been shakier than Michael J Fox. This isn't going to be resolved by sticking with injury prone players, Both Smalling and Jones deserve squad positions right now and the chance to become CB's eventually, but their injury record make that currently improbable. We need a very good CB bringing in now to secure it up a bit.
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I'm not deluded to think they will reach that level again, but to say 4 years ago etc I think isn't quite right. We got to the champions league final in 2011 that's 18 months ago with CM of Carrick, Giggs and Park. It was the worst United team since the 2003 vintage.

Our back 4 must have done something right!

I'm not proclaiming them as worldies but I think people do jump on the bandwagon. Vidic and Rio are on the decline but there's not a lot around that are better.
 
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:cool:
 
Had a great match yesterday imo, which has been barely mentioned in the media.
If I had my tin foil hat on I'd say they have decided to try and wobble Utd's title bid by focusing on de Gea, they dont want the title race getting boring.

It's good to see the fans backing him and the players have started to speak up as well:
"He was superb," stated Rooney. "I think he's been great for us over the last few weeks as he's made some great saves.

"I know he got a little bit of criticism after the Tottenham game but he made five or six world-class saves in that game and it wasn't the biggest mistake I've ever seen.

"We're all behind him and backing him. He's a great player for us and for the future as well."

http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-F...rns-praise-for-top-performance-at-fulham.aspx
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Watching the Liverpool City game now and Hart has made plenty of mistakes, yet I doubt we'll be talking about Hart not being good enough right?
 
Precisely the point I was making during MotD last night. I counted 5 goals that came as a direct result of mistakes by keepers (2 by Cech) yet none are mentioned today.
 
A quote from a user on a BBC article:

"United's weakest link is their goalkeeper so teams should capitalise on this"

:confused: i cant believe the media frenzy has stirred up so much rubbish about De Gea that it has led people to think he is the worst player in the United side.

Nothing wrong with De Gea at all.
 
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