Declining attitude to law and order

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ok so lets put things into perspective here. There is no respect in regards to the police by criminals period, thats the whole point of this. If they did then they wouldnt do crime right?

Now in this particular scene the coppers male or female could not handle the situation and the guy got away via a struggle. Fair play to him in that respect, i mean do people seriously expect someone to be like "ok gov, you got me, ill come quietly"?. This just doesnt happen and one of the reasons is because they fear that they will be treated unfairly and their case not really heard as it will be "documented and filed" as mentioned before and his crime, whatever that was, just put in one of the many wide boxes police have to use these days to save time and effort due to lack of numbers and ability.

I lived in Spain for many years and out there you just dont get this kind of thing happening and i know that i dont have to tell you why. They are respected out there and not due to the fact they communicate with the community or are nice to people or even play by the rules. They are armed, tooled up to the max and thats just the local police. Dont get the national involved because they will just turn up in a armoured van, several get out with balaclavas on and would have simply broken that guy in two while pointing automatic weapons at him. Believe me it happens, ive seen it with my own eyes.

If we adopted just a small amount of this attitude into our own forces this kind of thing wouldnt happen.
 
I don't think the attitude is any worse that it was 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago in fact it's probably better. There have always been pockets where the population have no respect for law and order, the difference is that when the police are effectively resourced that lack of respect tends to bubble under instead of coming to the surface. It's like the internet anonymity issue, people will say stuff because they have no fear of repercussion, in times when there is a risk people won't be as willing to step up with their awful opinions, it doesn't mean they don't hold those opinions anymore, it's just that they are kept in check for fear of punishment. Given that criminality seems to cluster geographically it makes sense that if you're arresting a dude in an area with a high crime rate then there's a bigger chance of passers by being hostile to the police, either because they are criminals themselves, or because of a more invasive police presence in the area, or just because they don't see the police having any positive impact on their lives.

None of this should be acceptable in society but equally it's not really surprising either.
 
mmj_uk said:
I found these on Youtube after a quick search.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-arrest-6ft-suspect-arrives-KNIFE-nearby.html

This sort of public image is not really helpful when your job is to act as deterrent and intimidate criminals and physically enforce the law:

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There are just as many (probably more) videos of male police officers getting assaulted, and even in countries where police are armed, they get assaulted or killed. This isn't an issue unique to women in policing.
 
It's really difficult to know what to do, for years the left has been talking about a lack of money for social projects etc leading youth to crime. The left is pushing for more liberal solutions involving better education and social care. But at the same time back when I was growing up there was far less money for these things but the community would police it's self a lot more.

There were a lot more housewives out and about during the day at the local shops etc. People knew each other and families tried to avoid a bad name. There was a level of shame if your son got into trouble with the police for example. Now it seems people are basically anonymous to each other in their own streets and community policing seems non existent. Thatcher famously said there is no such thing as society and I think this is the biggest mistake in the direction this country has take in the last 40 years.

Look at what Japan does, every small block of houses has a kind of community warden, often a retired policeman who looks after peoples concerns and looks out for families having problems etc. The Japanese are renowned for community cohesion and consideration for others. We could learn a lot. Or should I say remember a lot, we used to know this stuff I still remember it as a child.

I've just come back from 2 weeks in a small Austrian town which doesn't help, but I'm looking around and thinking what on earth are we doing?
 
MookJong said:
It's really difficult to know what to do, for years the left has been talking about a lack of money for social projects etc leading youth to crime. The left is pushing for more liberal solutions involving better education and social care. But at the same time back when I was growing up there was far less money for these things but the community would police it's self a lot more.

There were a lot more housewives out and about during the day at the local shops etc. People knew each other and families tried to avoid a bad name. There was a level of shame if your son got into trouble with the police for example. Now it seems people are basically anonymous to each other in their own streets and community policing seems non existent. Thatcher famously said there is no such thing as society and I think this is the biggest mistake in the direction this country has take in the last 40 years.

Look at what Japan does, every small block of houses has a kind of community warden, often a retired policeman who looks after peoples concerns and looks out for families having problems etc. The Japanese are renowned for community cohesion and consideration for others. We could learn a lot. Or should I say remember a lot, we used to know this stuff I still remember it as a child.

I've just come back from 2 weeks in a small Austrian town which doesn't help, but I'm looking around and thinking what on earth are we doing?
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Cannot agree with you more. People don't go to church anymore, people drive 40 minutes to go to work and back. They don't work with the people who live near them, they don't go to the pub anymore. People earn loads of money in London to then move out to the country and do all of the above. There is no community anymore, it's sad.
 
It'll only get worse when the Police only start taking on University educated individuals and as these are usually breeding grounds for liberals you can see how that will pan out.
 
Mason- said:
Cannot agree with you more. People don't go to church anymore, people drive 40 minutes to go to work and back. They don't work with the people who live near them, they don't go to the pub anymore. People earn loads of money in London to then move out to the country and do all of the above. There is no community anymore, it's sad.
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It's weird, it's like our public servants don't see how detrimental this shift has been, it is never discussed. Everything is about the individual now and what the individual is feeling but that shouldn't be the concern of councils and governments, that is your own business. Gone are the bus conductors, milkmen, postman, small shop owners that you would see week in week out. These were not necessarily authority figures but certainly community figures that allowed you to reflect on your part in the bigger picture of where you lived.

24hr, outsourced and centralised might be efficient but it is short sighted and going to come back to bite us I think.
 
MookJong said:
It's weird, it's like our public servants don't see how detrimental this shift has been, it is never discussed. Everything is about the individual now and what the individual is feeling but that shouldn't be the concern of councils and governments, that is your own business. Gone are the bus conductors, milkmen, postman, small shop owners that you would see week in week out. These were not necessarily authority figures but certainly community figures that allowed you to reflect on your part in the bigger picture of where you lived.

24hr, outsourced and centralised might be efficient but it is going to come back to bite us I think.
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Yeah I'd agree with pretty much all of what you're saying, it chimes with my own experiences of crime, witnessing crimes against others and the aftermaths, and also the shift in society.
 
I noticed in the video that when the guy stood up it was only the female officer holding on to the guy. She was getting dragged around. Eventually a male officer grabs him too and they are both still being pulled around. Meanwhile the biggest male officer is standing there with a pepper spray :rolleyes:

In this instance the male police officers seemed below par. The female police officer seemed to be the only one trying to get the situation under control, let down by the 2 male officers.
 
mmj_uk said:
I'm not sexist but what do they expect to happen when they put women up againt male criminals?
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I used to think like that until me and two of my friends admittedly were too drunk and being idiots got into a bit of a squabble with some doormen, the police were called and 3 female officers arrived. Eventually it all calmed down and one of my friends asked that question. One of the officers said "not being funny but if three male officers turned up it probably would have escalated, but you guys aren't likely going to attack and intimidate women, are you?"
To which we all replied no. I took my caution no problem (lucky we wasn't fined really), everyone shook hands and we all apologised to the police and doormen, we didn't complain that we were now barred and actually commended the officers who handled the situation perfectly.

So its a shame to see videos like the above which seems to now be the norm, people think its cool to be rude and disrespectful to the police, but why? :mad:
 
BowdonUK said:
I noticed in the video that when the guy stood up it was only the female officer holding on to the guy. She was getting dragged around. Eventually a male officer grabs him too and they are both still being pulled around. Meanwhile the biggest male officer is standing there with a pepper spray :rolleyes:

In this instance the male police officers seemed below par. The female police officer seemed to be the only one trying to get the situation under control, let down by the 2 male officers.
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What by wildly swinging her night stick around? All 3 of them were useless in this case and in my eyes non of them had a hand on the situation from an individual perspective or group
 
Less carrot, more stick. The police need more training and leeway when dealing with violent, resisting offenders. Also, we don't need any resources spent on online name-calling/jokes.
 
SMN said:
Without wanting to sound too much like a keyboard warrior, whats left to respect about the 'law'? The police dont, to borrow a phrase from our grammatically challenged cousins, 'Protect and Serve'. If anything, they 'Document and File'. They dont turn up to burglaries, car thefts, etc any more and they dont do much to visibly and actively prevent crime; even worse, when people try and report crime they often CANT (i'm part of a local facebook group for the village I moved to recently, and people have been on hold to 101 for 45 mins+ regularly trying to report a crime).
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It also doesn't help when we have a situation where the bodies of the dead and dying are littering the streets, 90% of house breakings go unsolved. And yet, we also have headlines concerning how police chiefs are proposing to clamp down on the deadly menace of drivers exceeding the speed limit by 1MPH.

It would be funny if it wasn't such a disaster :/
 
"Culture - the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society"

We have allowed our customs and acceptable norms for social behaviour to worsen. @MookJong mentions bus conductors, shop keepers etc as being part of the social fabric. But it's further than that, we have disposed of nearly all public space authority figures or custodians. There are no park wardens, no janitors, no figures who remind us on a routine basis to obey the rules. We have made a virtue of standing up to authority irrespective of whether it is just or not. Members of our society no longer self regulate against a common set of ideals supported by public figures enforcing them. We've lost those customs and behaviours. Following the rules is a habit that fewer and fewer people follow and it affects all areas of life. I routinely see people drive through red lights at a local roundabout, by and large they are "safe" doing so because there is a big delay between their red an the green. But that ignores the fact that other drivers on on a non-traffic lighted exit rely on that gap to pull out. The red jumpers create traffic jams. And so on our descent from rule following affects all aspects of society and we are less not more free as a consequence. Anarchists think removing laws makes us free when the opposite is true laws make most people freer, in particular free from fear where strength or wealth or influence give us power we don't deserve. We exist in a society of strangers and this works because we're all strangers before the law and treated equally but lawlessness removes that levelling effect.

Our society is on a downward spiral in this respect and it is hard to see how it can restored.
 
They need to get back to grass roots crime like shoplifting and such, people just literally think they can get away with murder these days.

Also as mentioned need more Police on the beat, I had to ring 999 a couple of weeks back for a drunk driver that crashed his car at high speed next to my house we tried to keep him at the scene but his mates turned up causing aggro.

This was at 11pm which you would think wasn't a busy time but it took the Police 50 mins to come.
 
The Swedish police are armed and obliged to carry their firearm when on duty in public places, so why the hell didn't those female cops put some lead in him? No wonder the public are voting Right, what a carry on... In Russia or the US he'd have looked like a colander after that.
 
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