Degree Apprenticeship vs Computer Science from Top 20
- Thread starter Trojan Horse
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We're very sorry that our real world experience of being employed and doing the employing doesn't live up to the image you have built in your mind from your years of experience in the working world.
Richard Branson is one of the richest men on the planet and he left school with nothing, there are exceptions to all rules but you've got to be very good and more importantly very lucky.
He says that he got the grade boundaries lowered, because the boundaries for Newcastle are actually "AAB-ABB/AAC (excluding General Studies and Critical Thinking). GCSE Mathematics grade B required."
I have to agree with Tefal though, I am currently studying CS and whilst not at a top 10 uni it is a difficult degree and I think you are underestimating it.
Talking about doing and MSc at Oxbridge and progression to a "Top 4" like it is a simple path is crazy talk. You do understand that you need to be acing your undergrad at Newcastle as well as building a portfolio that sets you aside from the thousands of others who will graduate at the same time as you to have any chance of Oxbridge, never mind the fact "Top 4" companies practically cherry pick people who they are made aware of. At my university, the head of CS is in constant dialogue with execs at Cisco, Goldman Sachs and so forth making them aware of the very best students and these companies are then coming in and getting these students signed up straight out of uni purely on this knowledge.
You need to do well to get to Newcastle in the first place (Many people don't get predicted A levels) and then once your there, who knows what will happen.
Your a-level choices don't scream out that you have always had an interest in going onto to study CS either so is this a new decision you have made or ?
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Entry requirements at uni these days seem more a factor of how popular the course is rather than how difficult it is.
Do you get a batchelor's degree from the apprenticeship? If the answer is yes then it's a total no-brainer....do the apprentriceship.
You can do most of the critical computer science modules for free on Coursera from the likes of Stanford/MIT etc so you can fill in the academic gaps.
If you don't get a proper batchelor's from the apprenticeship, it's a bit more tricky. Having a degree does open doors (most importantly in my experience, requirements for working visas abroad).
You can do most of the critical computer science modules for free on Coursera from the likes of Stanford/MIT etc so you can fill in the academic gaps.
If you don't get a proper batchelor's from the apprenticeship, it's a bit more tricky. Having a degree does open doors (most importantly in my experience, requirements for working visas abroad).
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Caporegime
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If I were the OP I'd worry less about Top 4's and Red Bricks and how so and so now works for such and such and how all of us in GD are cretins with dreadful educational backgrounds and focus more on the fact that I'm 18, have zero life skills, have appalling communication skills, am ignoring useful advice, and can't be arsed to work harder to get better grades at the very Universities I'll probably end up at because I talk a lot on forums (reddit? really?) and do little to merit my comically overblown perceived self worth.
Oh, and the apprenticeship is the answer to your question.
Oh, and the apprenticeship is the answer to your question.
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The apprenticeship is BBC whilst the university is AAB, but I got it lowered.
I never said there was a set in stone route to success...
But are the CS courses on Coursera accepted by most employers?
I'm not. I know it's not easy, I've never said it was. I was outlining what my aims and goals were. I guess, like a previous poster said, higher risk, higher reward route.
Yes, it's a new decision I made. I chose my A levels keeping to broader subject to help keep more routes open. This is probably why Uni is also better for me, the flexibility of finding out what part of CS interests me most and not having to stick strictly to what the employer wants.
As you were talking about statistics, employment chances, etc. Here is the official unistats page: http://unistats.direct.gov.uk/Subjects/Overview/10007799FT-objid50961003
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It wouldn't pass any HR filters, probably wouldn't pass much recruitment agencies, but actual line managers may consider them (if it gets that far).
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I haven't ignored any advice. I've taken everything that's been said, on board, some things with a bit more salt than others. There is a different between changing my decision and acknowledging advice.
Yeah.. I thought as much. I think that passing HR filters is probably much a much more important priority.
If someone can show they have completed the core subjects on Coursera (data structures, algorithm analysis, paradigms) I'm happy they have all the academic knowledge that really matters from a CompSci degree. I've done one myself and they are just as good, actually better than tuition from all but the best universities.
If they have 5 years practical experience *and* those courses....no way in hell am I hiring a fresh grad that thinks he knows it all over them!
they're not a substitute for a degree, at least not at the moment, they're not a bad thing though - certainly a plus to have some... they can demonstrate you've attempted to acquire some additional skills and if relevant to the role then the hiring manager can delve deeper into that at interview
udacity nanodegrees and the coursera specialisations could be useful in this regard as you'll undertake actual projects which you could show to employers, link to your github on your CV etc.... and since you're interested in big tech firms - google has created quite a few of the courses on udacity so you've got one employer at least who sees value in them
in addition to this any personal side projects or open source contributions could be useful - the degree is the most important thing though, don't slip a grade because you get distracted by side projects etc.. you want the best marks you can get on the degree if you're considering an MSc
udacity nanodegrees and the coursera specialisations could be useful in this regard as you'll undertake actual projects which you could show to employers, link to your github on your CV etc.... and since you're interested in big tech firms - google has created quite a few of the courses on udacity so you've got one employer at least who sees value in them
in addition to this any personal side projects or open source contributions could be useful - the degree is the most important thing though, don't slip a grade because you get distracted by side projects etc.. you want the best marks you can get on the degree if you're considering an MSc
Not necessarily a fair comparison. Need to add 2 years of work experience and and extras onto the grad as well... maybe a decent github history for example.
yep - top uni + grad scheme still optimal
B/C grade A-level student -> IT apprenticeship + vocational BPP degree at J.P.Morgan in Bournemouth for 5 years at 13k to 20-something-k at the 5 year mark is still an inferior option to
A/B grade A Level student -> top 10 uni + summer internships -> 2 years at J.P. Morgan via grad scheme in London on 40-something + bonus...
then again
A/B grade student -> top 10 uni..... messes up and gets a 2:2 or below or drops out or does no summer internship or has zero EQ so fails badly at interviews -> kicking themselves for not taking the apprentiship
B/C grade A-level student -> IT apprenticeship + vocational BPP degree at J.P.Morgan in Bournemouth for 5 years at 13k to 20-something-k at the 5 year mark is still an inferior option to
A/B grade A Level student -> top 10 uni + summer internships -> 2 years at J.P. Morgan via grad scheme in London on 40-something + bonus...
then again
A/B grade student -> top 10 uni..... messes up and gets a 2:2 or below or drops out or does no summer internship or has zero EQ so fails badly at interviews -> kicking themselves for not taking the apprentiship
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this is pretty much exactly what i wanted to see in the thread, where each route is most likely to take me, thanks for this. Also, would this apply to a uni within the top 20?
There is also the
B/C grade student -> CapGemini Apprenticeship for 5 years 16.5k - 30k towards end of the apprenticeship
http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/compare?i=1176&i=1291&s=
An interesting table for you to have a look at. I appreciate Newcastle is ahead for Computer Science each year but clearly Aston is a decent reputable institution.
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Thanks. Rankings don't really indicate much apart from a select few Unis. This is all and well but their actual CS graduates don't fare too well in the graduate job market. The jump from Aston's place as 10th to 40th should indicate that rankings.. really don't mean much.
http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/league-tables/compare?i=1176&i=1291&s=Computer+Science
Employers are still going to see a Red Brick vs an Ex-Poly. It's obviously more of a stigmatism employers have and not so reflective of actual graduates. I'm sure that firms who don't cherry pick wouldn't care so much about the differences between Aston and Newcastle. But I want that door to potentially be open to me in the future.
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Aston is not really an Ex-Poly in the same way as Man Met. It is technically a Plate glass university like Warwick and York which all became universities in the 1960s albeit with older routes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_glass_university
I don't know if I have much faith in some of the league tables.
There's a large discrepancy between the local tables and the international tables, partly because we use things like student satisfaction, good honours, or degree completion. I can easily imagine that some university that routinely gives out firsts might have a high degree completion and student satisfaction.
There's a large discrepancy between the local tables and the international tables, partly because we use things like student satisfaction, good honours, or degree completion. I can easily imagine that some university that routinely gives out firsts might have a high degree completion and student satisfaction.
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Aston seems OK. I'm still going to prioritise Exeter/QMUL over it any day. Is it even possible to live in London on 15k a year? It probably goes a lot further in Exeter.
Yeah... I have a MSc (Distinction) at a top 5 uni, got a number of job offers upon graduation and work at a "top tier" firm.
Career wise, I would have been better off on the type of apprenticeship you are talking about.
I went to university for academic reasons, and seriously considered doing a PhD. If you're not interested in that, and already know the type of work you want to do upon graduation - i.e. you OP - then apprenticeships are better hands down.