Degree Apprenticeship vs Computer Science from Top 20

Unfortunately as IT doesn't have chartered status like accountancy or engineering, you get a lot of people thinking that they're good just because they've held onto a job in IT (infrastructure) for quite some time. Some of the most incompetent infrastructure IT folk I know have been working for 20+ years but have managed to blag themselves into one post after another. Because they're seen as experienced, probably.

Degree's and industry certs help overcome this to a certain extent as they show you are aware of best practices and not some cowboy on a power trip.

Software engineers tend to be more about the academic qualifications, not having a great degree from a great uni is much more of a negative amongst the programmers I've known. But then, great programmers are more likely to be uber geeks and tend to devote both their working and private lives to coding.

Just my observations.

There's another dimension to this: software engineering can incorporate some things which are things harder to learn on the job. i.e. suppose you're a on-the-job learned Perl programmer, maybe you started as a first line tech, then moved to sysadmin, learned Perl, and eventually moved into Perl full time. You might never come across in your professional life a programming language from a paradigm outside your language. There's no reason in that career path why you might come across a language from the functional paradigm (like Haskell or OCaml), or the logical paradigm (like Prolog), or specialist programming language (like R or Matlab). You also might not come across a a number of data structures or programming concepts which a good university degree should expose you to. It's not that you would necessarily use any of these specific ideas day-to-day in your work, but it gives you a different way of thinking about the problem which helps you come up with different solutions than you otherwise would.

In comparison, something like being a network engineer or a systems engineer is more of an engineering discipline centred around application and is much less theoretical (by the nature of the job). This might be changing slowly with things like SDNs, but on the whole, configuring routing on estate of Cisco switches is a very different type of task to say, writing a compression algorithm, and one much more aligned with on the job training.
 
Well Exeter offer it too don't they? Though that is worrying that people haven't managed to convert their placement year/internship into an actual job with that same employer.

Why is your alternative option of going to university for 3 years just Newcastle - surely you apply to six different universities through UCAS?

Aye, Exeter do offer it as well. It's just that... Exeter is 6 hours away. Newcastle is perfect as it ticks all my boxes (RG, location, ranking, modules, entry requirements, graduate prospects, etc).

I've got offers from Nottingham, Northumbria, Swansea, and Lancaster. I've made the decision to firm Newcastle and insure Northumbria.

that apprenticeship sounds good money and good commute.

dont let ocuk put you off tho, a good degree at a good unī will put your foot thru doors otherwise inaccessible (depends on industry, im in engineering and its almost a requirement now).
also remember if you earn around 35k student loam payments are about 200 quid , on the old system at least.... which stings!

dont go to a crap uni to do a crap degree tho. thats what happens to the butthurt uni go-ers

I think OcUK is 90% crap uni go-ers. They must have had a hard time getting a job or something. I was talking to a grad from Newcastle, he got firsts all year, no experience whatsoever and in his second year secured a 1yr internship with Microsoft and after graduation he works for IBM as a dev. All he had was the academic background.
 
Last edited:
The cap ones much closer to home, the cap uni is Aston and BPP uni of nothing with JP Morgan, cap's programme seems much better, for me anyway.

BPP's much more known for law, finance, and accountancy. I guess it made sense for them to branch out into IT sooner or later.

If you're looking to get into financial IT, JP Morgan is a much better name than Capgemini.

Is Newcastle something that's considered to be a 'mediocre' university?

Newcastle is a respectable university, as far as I know it has a reasonable Comp Sci department. Officially I attended it for 2 years, but I was a remote research student, so I can't attest to the quality of the teaching.
 
a) I'm doubtful about that.
b) you really know how to win over a crowd! :o:p

Sorry (not sorry)! Everyone on here is incredibly bitter and resentful towards their past uni experiences though, maybe they just weren't good at exams or something and found it hard to get into places without a stronger academic background. To be honest, I would much rather spend my time with higher-caliber students as that sort of environment just nurtures better learning and what not.

Also, the /cscareerquestions subreddit, mostly, has a stigma towards working for the top 4, and every single one of those posts encourages the "aim high and reap the rewards" of doing straight CompSci. People here on OcUK just entirely dismissed that.
 
Last edited:
I forgot to reply to your last trust message ironically as I'm currently doing part of the Uni degree where we're on-campus. :p

I really wouldn't dwell on the degree, with 5 years experience with Capgemini the degree will be almost worthless. It will be the last part of my CV if I ever move outside of CG as a degree won't be worth more than my 5 years experience in my current sector.

People struggling after getting a degree at Aston is mainly down to Birmingham not being so great for jobs at the moment and a lot of Uni students don't have 5 years experience on their CV. Having a degree from Oxford and trying to find a job in Birmingham will put you in the exact same basket I'm afraid.
 
Look forward to someone posting the same thing in a few years, and you telling them to go for the apprenticeship. :)

I would laugh pretty hard at that myself to be honest.

Again though, I'm not decided yet, I have a lot of time to make the decision but D&T with Exeter sounds great, employment looks great, but the course is purely industry. They take out most of the other theoretical stuff and cram in business and management modules instead. I would rather develop broader knowledge and understand more fully. There's also the fact that Uni would be at a slower pace than 40 hour work + 1 day a week uni. Obviously, you could keep up on top, but I feel that I would have to pay some sacrifice towards my grades for that to happen. Or I just don't want to work that hard?

I forgot to reply to your last trust message ironically as I'm currently doing part of the Uni degree where we're on-campus. :p

I really wouldn't dwell on the degree, with 5 years experience with Capgemini the degree will be almost worthless. It will be the last part of my CV if I ever move outside of CG as a degree won't be worth more than my 5 years experience in my current sector.

People struggling after getting a degree at Aston is mainly down to Birmingham not being so great for jobs at the moment and a lot of Uni students don't have 5 years experience on their CV. Having a degree from Oxford and trying to find a job in Birmingham will put you in the exact same basket I'm afraid.

Hello again!

Well, where do you want to see yourself in 5 years time? With what companies doing which roles?

As someone that lives in a pretty small city up north, I've always just thought all larger cities would be easier to get employed in (obviously wrong lol), didn't realize that the Brummy IT industry was that poor though.
 
Last edited:
I think OcUK is 90% crap uni go-ers. They must have had a hard time getting a job or something. I was talking to a grad from Newcastle, he got firsts all year, no experience whatsoever and in his second year secured a 1yr internship with Microsoft and after graduation he works for IBM as a dev. All he had was the academic background.

i think youre just telling yourself what you want to think. come back in 4 years time and talk about how great your academic achievements were. Until then youre probably a little naive , high achieving little fish in a small pond (ie doing well in small class of average students), once you get to university and real life you'll realise there's a lot of competition!

overall i think the fees are what really makes it worth questioning wether to bother with uni, there are some well earning it bods on this forum so id listen to the voices of experience ;) (and ignore the exaggerations)
 
BPP is respected. It's a private uni, and relatively new. Well, I know a little bit about its offerings when it comes to law... for that's it's definitively respected/is where some very good firms send their grads to do the LPC, etc.

Tbf there's like 2 main providers and it's a case of 'go to the one you are being paid to go to' :p
 
I really wouldn't dwell on the degree, with 5 years experience with Capgemini the degree will be almost worthless. It will be the last part of my CV if I ever move outside of CG as a degree won't be worth more than my 5 years experience in my current sector.

People struggling after getting a degree at Aston is mainly down to Birmingham not being so great for jobs at the moment and a lot of Uni students don't have 5 years experience on their CV. Having a degree from Oxford and trying to find a job in Birmingham will put you in the exact same basket I'm afraid.

He's raised a valid concern re: Aston students who've had internships at Cap seemingly not converting them to full time jobs. As an 'apprentice' are you already essentially a proper employee or could they turn around at the end of your 5 year period and decide to not keep you on?
 
Sorry (not sorry)! Everyone on here is incredibly bitter and resentful towards their past uni experiences though

Funnily, I didn't really enjoy my university experience, although somehow I've ended up being one of the degree advocates on this thread.

I didn't really intend to be a degree advocate, but for you to better understand the choice you're making. A degree from a good university is two things:

a) a ticket to apply for some of the higher end jobs,
b) an opportunity to be exposed to some different ideas, some practical, some esoteric

Note that neither of those things are guaranteed and certainly getting a higher end job is not the average experience, hence why early on I said this was a higher risk, higher reward route compared to apprenticeship. It's also entirely possible to graduate without work lined up, in significant debt, and the only thing you've taken away from the experience is knowing alcohol much better.

It's entirely up to you whether the potential for reward is worth it for your own personal risk appetite.
 
How can you not enjoy uni - that's impossible.

For what it's worth, I don't know a single person from my uni (Bristol) that has seriously struggled to get a decent job. Well, that's limited to my friends, who I consider to be rounded, admirable people. Some friends have taken roles that aren't necessarily 'prestigious' (well, as in arts related roles or charity work) but that's a lifestyle choice and as far as I know they have no regrets whatsoever.

Edit - that's not a f'nar look at me, just a factual statement based on my experiences.
 
Last edited:
Yeah there is a bit of tailoring for firms for sure. UWE (shudder) used to be the absolute bees knees for the LPC round these parts... Until College of Law showed up and knicked half their senior staff.

LPC fees are insano considering it's the most ludicrous doddle of all time. Balls of steel to do that without financial backing of some sort, which I think most people probably have (Bank of M&D).
 
He's raised a valid concern re: Aston students who've had internships at Cap seemingly not converting them to full time jobs. As an 'apprentice' are you already essentially a proper employee or could they turn around at the end of your 5 year period and decide to not keep you on?

Ah sorry, I missed that point.

You're a full time employee from day 1 but of course go under the name of apprentice, so why they have left to join worse jobs I am not sure, however the scheme is quite new so would be sceptical whether what they're saying is true.

After spending 50k+ on you, (before the government helped) would be crazy to let them go after training them up! (This does include internal training, expenses and getting you settled into projects).
 
Last edited:
Ah sorry, I missed that point.

You're a full time employee from day 1 but of course go under the name of apprentice, so why they have left to join worse jobs I am not sure, however the scheme is quite new so would be sceptical whether what they're saying is true.

It isn't what anyone has said - it seems it is what he's seen through searching on linked in - people with an internship there not converting that to a full time role. Then again I guess those people haven't done the apprenticeship.

After spending 50k+ on you, (before the government helped) would be crazy to let them go after training them up! (This does include internal training, expenses and getting you settled into projects).

While you say it would be silly to let you go after training you up do you know whether they can simply do that or not? Are you a proper employee who'd need performance reviews etc.. to get rid of you or are you on a 5 year temporary contract which they could chose not to renew quite easily?
 
We have some apprenticeships at my new job in the first line and one guy left after a year for a full time job at another law firm. Great way to get a foot in the door, I just be weary about being locked in for long periods of time.
 
I think OcUK is 90% crap uni go-ers. They must have had a hard time getting a job or something. I was talking to a grad from Newcastle, he got firsts all year, no experience whatsoever and in his second year secured a 1yr internship with Microsoft and after graduation he works for IBM as a dev. All he had was the academic background.

Well, you've posted a thread asking for help, ignored a lot of the advice, and insulted people in one go. What next? A permaban after a drunken rant to follow?
 
I think OcUK is 90% crap uni go-ers. They must have had a hard time getting a job or something. I was talking to a grad from Newcastle, he got firsts all year, no experience whatsoever and in his second year secured a 1yr internship with Microsoft and after graduation he works for IBM as a dev. All he had was the academic background.

what's his salary?


and not to sound harsh but you keep talking about firsts, and top level unis, and internships at the big 4 and Oxbridge masters etc.

most people dont get any of that, statistically you wont get any of that.

Do you really think you'll get a first?

and do you think that guy got it on his academic grounds or on his personal ability/performance in interviews and ideas?
 
While you say it would be silly to let you go after training you up do you know whether they can simply do that or not? Are you a proper employee who'd need performance reviews etc.. to get rid of you or are you on a 5 year temporary contract which they could chose not to renew quite easily?

as an apprentice you dont necessarily have a certain job at the end, however that's usually because you've done something so bad you are "invited to leave", they like to give you the option to quit rather than be fired while you're an appo.


apprentices (especially on long term ones) are taken on to fulfil specific demands and are an expensive investment, one thing that can happen though is a downturn which means they dont want to or cant afford to take you ont ofull time full pay staff often they'll scrape up an extra module or two and say "well do you want to stay on as an appo for another year"
 
Back
Top Bottom