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Castiel said:
Without wanting to fully engage in this thread, I would point out that Iran do not have a history of attacking other nations, historically they are a defensive rather than offensive nation, rhetoric aside of course.

They are fully within their rights to seek a civlian nuclear power generation policy. It is not really for us, the United States or Israel to dictate to them what they should and should not do as long as all three are nuclear powers themselves.
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I agree. It's not rocket science - I don't understand why more people don't get it.
 
Paul11 said:
its quite clear that israel has nukes for defence

can we same the same for iran ?
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Iran has not begun any wars of aggression, yet the West and Israel are constantly threatening military action because it could become the dominant power in the region and isn't a Western lapdog like Saudi Arabia.

North Korea has already shown that the only way to get the West to **** off is to acquire nuclear weapons, so it makes sense for Iran to pursue them.

there seems to be the possiblilty of them falling in to the wrong hands, and used to threaten us via terrorist organisations in the future
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Which terrorist organisations? Why would Iran invest so much into building a warhead and then give it away? If you are worried about stability, Iran's government is in a much stronger position than Pakistan's and they have plenty of nukes.

[TW]Fox;20470885 said:
The government phone them up and give them the stories they want printed.

This, whilst a load of rubbish, is the only answer you will accept so there you go.
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Are you kidding? I worked in PR for several years; all government departments, including the MoD and security services, brief out stories that they want to appear in the media.
 
it would be a sad day for the world if the 'west' goes and attacks Iran - yes ok their a bit aggressive and have said they want to blow isreal out of the water but they havent exactly done anything to prove they will even do that...its just hot air.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad isnt some sort of tyranical leader thats been in charge for 10s of years he was duly elected and compared to recent english politics has served a relatively short time in office (regardless of whether you think his 2nd term was a fix - this is no worse then bush era politics), hes also well educated and I dont really see him being all gunho for real - hes just ****ed off and I cant blame him to be honest.

its like the west never want the middle east to move forward, to develop - their just used as a 'get rich quick' scenerio by fat cats.
 
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Niju Rosu said:
We should stop worrying about Iran so much and start worrying about Pakistan.
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Yep, surprised it hasnt been mentioned yet, unless ive missed it.

Did you watch secret pakistan last night? Didn't really tell me anything I didnt already know but was still interesting. We'll never get rid of the Taliban in afganistan unless we "sort" the pakistan issue out aswell.

iamtheoneneo said:
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad isnt some sort of tyranical leader thats been in charge for 10s of years he was duly elected and compared to recent english politics has served a relatively short time in office (regardless of whether you think his 2nd term was a fix - this is no worse then bush era politics), hes also well educated and I dont really see him being all gunho for real - hes just ****ed off and I cant blame him to be honest.
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Ha, what?

Tell that to the women of Iran.
 
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Combat squirrel said:
Surely you’re not that naive to think the world works as it appears to work on the face of things? I mean in terms of social economics it’s beneficial in this world for a man to be a ‘man’ and call a spade a spade, so to speak, a no nonsense lets get on with it person, whom if you don’t mind me saying coming across from your posts you appear to be. While this is all good and well, to not think outside of the box or completely reject other ideas that are based on knowledge of what people are like as well as previous EVIDENCE of deception from governments have done before, I feel is a little bit to much like burying ones head in the sand perhaps ? Of course just saying, hey its all fine in our bubble of the western world is a pretty good coping mechanism. Just because ‘nothings’ ever happened, or ever happened to your parents doesn’t mean a lot of stuff isn’t going on, or perhaps will go on.

End of the day (vaguely relating to this) is the fact the world is never going to change size and humans are a species out of control, sometime, sooner rather than later, something will give and it will either be nuclear war or terrible disease, if by pure chance non of this happens, it will be eventual starvation, which is what happens now to billions. Our western world doesn't feel the effect of this to much, but we will one day. One thing is for SURE and im a man of total science, things will get worse before they get better.
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TJM said:
Iran has not begun any wars of aggression, yet the West and Israel are constantly threatening military action because it could become the dominant power in the region and isn't a Western lapdog like Saudi Arabia.

North Korea has already shown that the only way to get the West to **** off is to acquire nuclear weapons, so it makes sense for Iran to pursue them.


Are you kidding? I worked in PR for several years; all government departments, including the MoD and security services, brief out stories that they want to appear in the media.
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TJM is making sense
 
Anyone that doesn't think the government manipulates the media is a fool. Jesus Christ they published a book on it.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_(book)
 
TJM said:
Iran has not begun any wars of aggression, yet the West and Israel are constantly threatening military action because it could become the dominant power in the region and isn't a Western lapdog like Saudi Arabia.

North Korea has already shown that the only way to get the West to **** off is to acquire nuclear weapons, so it makes sense for Iran to pursue them.
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Lebanon, Afghanistan, Iraq? You sure Iran hasn't committed any aggressive acts? Seizing British sailors in international waters is an act of war in itself - it just so happens that we're so weak on the international stage that we don't do anything about it. Just because they can't mount a large-scale military action doesn't mean they aren't spreading violence and terror when it suits them. Not that this necessarily justifies a military response.

I'm not aware that North Korea really has serious nuclear weapons capability. The thing that keeps everyone of NK's back as you put it is China. NK wouldn't exist were it not for the actions of the People's Republic in the Korean war and they still back Pyongyang to a large extent.

TJM said:
Which terrorist organisations? Why would Iran invest so much into building a warhead and then give it away? If you are worried about stability, Iran's government is in a much stronger position than Pakistan's and they have plenty of nukes.
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Grand Ayatollah Rafsanjani put it something along the lines of this; if Israel were to be wiped off the planet, the West would retaliate and Iran would be also wiped off the planet but while the state of Israel would be gone for good, Islam would still be around a thrive.

TJM said:
Are you kidding? I worked in PR for several years; all government departments, including the MoD and security services, brief out stories that they want to appear in the media.
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I agree with you there, amazingly naive to think otherwise.
 
TJM said:
Are you kidding? I worked in PR for several years; all government departments, including the MoD and security services, brief out stories that they want to appear in the media.
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Of course they do but the implication here is that everything in the media is what the government has put out themselves. This is not true - it might have been true in the Soviet Union in 1985 but it isn't true of the UK in 2011.

The media is free to report on what it wishes to and, within the law, dig out whatever stories it chooses to. The newspapers answer to shareholders, not governments. This doesn't mean they are unbiased - far from it - but it also doesn't mean that western Media is some sort of government propaganda machine where every story is that which the government has put out.

They are private companies motivated by profit and greed.

The sensationalist headlines in todays press have come from a forthcoming report by the IAEA and not from Mr Cameron who decided to leak something to drum up some propaganda.

It's tinfoilhattery to think otherwise.
 
OldCoals said:
I was dumped in the tin foil hat brigade when I suggested governments leaks stories.
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No, you claimed todays story about Irans weapons capability was put out by the British government which is a claim that is entirely baseless and which you have not a shred of evidence to support.
 
OldCoals said:
Where do the newspapers get the stories from?
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OldCoals said:
OK, lets be serious, do you really think that governments do not leak information?
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[TW]Fox;20472050 said:
No, you claimed todays story about Irans weapons capability was put out by the British government which is a claim that is entirely baseless and which you have not a shred of evidence to support.
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I quite clearly did not say what you are suggesting.
 
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