Derek Chauvin murder trial (Police officer who arrested George Floyd)

FlapR · 21 Apr 2021 at 20:51

Have you lot actually watched the full bodycam footage? He was horrendous to deal with, on drugs and absolutely massive. Did DC use excessive force for too long? Yes and he should be punished, but its like some of you think he was lynched and dragged through the streets. The mess in the media decimated the trial from the start, regardless of opinions or beliefs.

Just look at the other examples of "police brutality". Dont read articles just watch the bodycam footage and see what they have to deal with. There is a problem with police in America but its not as simple as systematic racism.

Trump was a complete moron and I enjoyed him losing but a president and other political figures shouldn't be making the statements Biden and Co are currently making. At the end of the day regardless of what happened there will still be riots and protests, which shows the BLM movement is a complete joke.

mattyfez · 21 Apr 2021 at 20:58

yet more deflections... the police officer murdred a suspect... the argument ends there.

Colonel_Klinck · 21 Apr 2021 at 20:59

Angilion said:
The point that he was saying he couldn't breathe before then. An inconvenient fact you ignore with great determination because it's inconvenient.

There are two possibilities:

1) He was telling the truth when he said he couldn't breathe while sitting down and while standing up, before he was restrained.
2) He was lying when he said he couldn't breathe before he was restrained.

Either possibility is inconvenient for your simplistic position so you simply ignore that it happened at all.

He'd said the same thing when being arrested before. Not when being restrained before. When being arrested before. With nobody restraining him.

It's not inconvenient for me. Lets say he was having problems breathing before he was placed on his front as he claimed. Is kneeling for 9.5 minutes on someone who says they can't breathe the logical thing to do? Then when they are not responsive and stop breathing is continuing to kneel on them the logical thing to do? The answer to both is no. They could have put him in the recovery position once cuffed and on the floor, there were 4 of them there to control him if necessary. You can argue this back and forth but DC did this to himself. His own colleagues threw him under the bus because he killed GF. I wasn't hopeful on the 2nd degree but I think the jury got it right.

MadMossy · 21 Apr 2021 at 21:00

mattyfez said:
yet more deflections... the police officer murdred a suspect... the argument ends there.

If you live in a world that only see's in black and white, then sure you win.

The rest of us live in reality.

Johno please? · 21 Apr 2021 at 21:00

FlapR said:
Trump was a complete moron and I enjoyed him losing but a president and other political figures shouldn't be making the statements Biden and Co are currently making. At the end of the day regardless of what happened there will still be riots and protests, which shows the BLM movement is a complete joke.

There's been riots in Portland for nearly a year now, so yea. Did you not see their little banner after Biden won?

"We dont want Biden, we want revenge" xD

Colonel_Klinck · 21 Apr 2021 at 21:06

rare said:
Surely the drugs have quite a lot to do with it. Wasn’t it already proved in the trial that there was no artery damage to the neck? That was my point earlier, if someone else other than George was in that situation that would likely have survived. It was a combination of factors.

thenewoc said:
The drugs could have reduced his capacity to withstand being detained robustly in the manner he was.

His defence team said DC played NO part in his death. The prosecution had to prove what DC did played a part in his death to get guilty verdicts on those charges. It was clear as day that what DC did played a part in his death. That is it. The drugs and everything else is irrelevant. Would GF have been alive that night if DC hadn't knelt on him for 9.5 minutes and the answer is yes he would. He's guilty.

thenewoc · 21 Apr 2021 at 21:23

Colonel_Klinck said:
You yell when you breathe out, breathing out wasn't his problem, breathing in was. I wonder if you'd yell if you couldn't breathe and someone kept kneeling on you. Or would you just lie there and die in silence?

Here you I'll quote it for you as well.

So he must have been able to breathe in to be able to breathe out!

thenewoc · 21 Apr 2021 at 21:32

Colonel_Klinck said:
His defence team said DC played NO part in his death. The prosecution had to prove what DC did played a part in his death to get guilty verdicts on those charges. It was clear as day that what DC did played a part in his death. That is it. The drugs and everything else is irrelevant. Would GF have been alive that night if DC hadn't knelt on him for 9.5 minutes and the answer is yes he would. He's guilty.

I didn't say he didn't play a part but did he knowingly play a part when he didn't know GF was on drugs or his general medical condition. He could have had a heart attack from being tasered. If you enter criminality you must realise you're making a choice of which likely carries a reduced life expectancy. I reserve my sympathies for his victims, who he robbed to feed his drug taking lifestyle choices.

Richie · 21 Apr 2021 at 21:32

Has it been proven in any way that it was to do with racism yet?

Other than the 2 main people involved being different races I mean.

thenewoc · 21 Apr 2021 at 21:35

FlapR said:
Have you lot actually watched the full bodycam footage? He was horrendous to deal with, on drugs and absolutely massive. Did DC use excessive force for too long? Yes and he should be punished, but its like some of you think he was lynched and dragged through the streets. The mess in the media decimated the trial from the start, regardless of opinions or beliefs.

Just look at the other examples of "police brutality". Dont read articles just watch the bodycam footage and see what they have to deal with. There is a problem with police in America but its not as simple as systematic racism.

Trump was a complete moron and I enjoyed him losing but a president and other political figures shouldn't be making the statements Biden and Co are currently making. At the end of the day regardless of what happened there will still be riots and protests, which shows the BLM movement is a complete joke.

Yes to be honest the original officer could have shot him with the way GF was behaving not putting his hands on the steering wheel and the strong possibility that he could have been concealing a weapon.

thenewoc · 21 Apr 2021 at 21:40

Colonel_Klinck said:
His defence team said DC played NO part in his death. The prosecution had to prove what DC did played a part in his death to get guilty verdicts on those charges. It was clear as day that what DC did played a part in his death. That is it. The drugs and everything else is irrelevant. Would GF have been alive that night if DC hadn't knelt on him for 9.5 minutes and the answer is yes he would. He's guilty.

Or if he'd just complied with being arrested in the first place. As for kneeling on him perhaps you'd want to immobilise his head to stop him from potentially biting you and possibly passing on hepatitis.

McGraw · 21 Apr 2021 at 21:45

The Running Man said:
My personal belief is that he had taken sufficient quantities of drugs that combined with his preexisting heart conditions that he struggled to breath before he was placed on the floor.

Alternatively he was faking it to try to escape.

Yes, let's

thenewoc said:
I didn't say he didn't play a part but did he knowingly play a part when he didn't know GF was on drugs or his general medical condition. He could have had a heart attack from being tasered. If you enter criminality you must realise you're making a choice of which likely carries a reduced life expectancy. I reserve my sympathies for his victims, who he robbed to feed his drug taking lifestyle choices.

Do you realise it’s been about 7 years since he was last in proper trouble with the police?

rare · 21 Apr 2021 at 22:05

Colonel_Klinck said:
His defence team said DC played NO part in his death. The prosecution had to prove what DC did played a part in his death to get guilty verdicts on those charges. It was clear as day that what DC did played a part in his death. That is it. The drugs and everything else is irrelevant. Would GF have been alive that night if DC hadn't knelt on him for 9.5 minutes and the answer is yes he would. He's guilty.

You can say they are irrelevant as much as you like but that’s just nonsense. It’s self evident that both his health and the drugs played a role in his death. As I said earlier, if you replaced him with someone else, the outcome may have been entirely different. I’m not saying DC was not at fault - I’m saying there were other factors at play. You can say they are irrelevant as much as you want, and they may well be from a legal perspective in terms of the outcome - but they clearly were not irrelevant on the day.

The Running Man · 21 Apr 2021 at 22:15

McGraw said:
Yes, let's

Do you realise it’s been about 7 years since he was last in proper trouble with the police?

Getting caught =/= doing crime

That he had driven to the store under the influence of drugs to spend a fake bill leads me to believe that he hadn't actually turned his life around significantly.

Hotwired · 21 Apr 2021 at 22:18

rare said:
You can say they are irrelevant as much as you like but that’s just nonsense. It’s self evident that both his health and the drugs played a role in his death. As I said earlier, if you replaced him with someone else, the outcome may have been entirely different. I’m not saying DC was not at fault - I’m saying there were other factors at play. You can say they are irrelevant as much as you want, and they may well be from a legal perspective in terms of the outcome - but they clearly were not irrelevant on the day.

You don't get to replace the victim with a fit and healthy person and say it would have been fine.

It has been this way for decades in western law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull

If someone is unusually vulnerable and you cause them injury or death your defence had better not hinge on blaming them for being unusually vulnerable. Instead you need to be able to justify your actions as responsible and proper.

mattyfez · 21 Apr 2021 at 22:23

rare said:
It’s self evident that both his health and the drugs played a role in his death.

It's self evident that is not the case! He was murdered by a police man. Have you not been watching the news?

thenewoc · 21 Apr 2021 at 22:31

mattyfez said:
It's self evident that is not the case! He was murdered by a police man. Have you not been watching the news?

Or he succumb to an increasingly robust detainment due to GF resisting arrest where GF was given the opportunity to sit in the police car without needing to be man handled but continued to resist arrest and was taken to the ground and restrained.

McGraw · 21 Apr 2021 at 22:40

thenewoc said:
Or he succumb to an increasingly robust detainment due to GF resisting arrest where GF was given the opportunity to sit in the police car without needing to be man handled but continued to resist arrest and was taken to the ground and restrained.

he want resisting arrest, he was resisting being placed in the vehicle at that time.

Colonel_Klinck · 21 Apr 2021 at 22:44

thenewoc said:
So he must have been able to breathe in to be able to breathe out!

Being able to get enough air into your lungs to say "I can't breathe" doesn't mean its enough air to live. Which it clearly wasn't because he died from a lack of oxygen.

thenewoc said:
I didn't say he didn't play a part but did he knowingly play a part when he didn't know GF was on drugs or his general medical condition. He could have had a heart attack from being tasered. If you enter criminality you must realise you're making a choice of which likely carries a reduced life expectancy. I reserve my sympathies for his victims, who he robbed to feed his drug taking lifestyle choices.

Then you see why he was convicted. Tasering someone is a momentary action, you do it and you might repeat it but then its done. If you just kept tasering someone for 9.5 minutes even when they had become non responsive and had even stopped breathing you'd be in DC's shoes and looking at a murder charge. He was convicted not for kneeling on GF neck but for continuing to so it for over 9.5 minutes. He actions contributed to his death and tha's enough for the charges he was facing.

thenewoc said:
Or if he'd just complied with being arrested in the first place. As for kneeling on him perhaps you'd want to immobilise his head to stop him from potentially biting you and possibly passing on hepatitis.

For over 9.5 minutes?

pallys · 21 Apr 2021 at 22:49

deuse said:
It makes me angry that people like a career criminal and riot in his name.

But when a 7 year old black girl got shot and killed at a McDonalds drive through.
No one says a word or protests in her name. https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/...lled-man-seriously-hurt-homan-square-shooting

Nothing on the blm website about it.

Surely you recognise the police did not kill the kid so therefore is different.

mattyfez said:
Seems a lot of people watched a different video of his murder to the one I saw... I can't see how any other verdict than guitly could have been reached.

At least the bent copper got to to to trial, less than the opportunity he afforded his victim.

Agree with this.
I shudder to imagine what it was like for black people prior to smart phones and body cam tech, and having to rely on the police narrative.

USA are a few decades behind UK in this regard. We had our watershed moment in 93 with the Stephen Lawrence murder and police finally admitting they had a problem. Same will eventually happen there.