The 2019 video not the 2020 video.
Derek Chauvin murder trial (Police officer who arrested George Floyd)
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The 2019 video not the 2020 video.
Pills were fentanyl and methamphetamine.
They can show (only limited) parts of the 2019 tape relevant to the defence argument re: his death being due to the drugs, in the 2019 incident he swallowed drugs and (importantly) was noted to have very high blood pressure afterwards - they can't actually show the bit of the tape where the paramedic tells him he'll have a heart attack if he doesn't go to the hospital, but they can have the paramedic testify about the hypertension etc..
The prosecution wanted to bring in some psychiatrist to talk about his mental state in relation to his behavour in the incident leading to his death - the judge basically said that if that happened then the defence could use the whole of the 2019 footage as then there would be arguments about his behaviour etc... Currently, though everything form 2019 is irrelevant to this trial aside from the medical argument.
Seems odd that the prosecution is able to talk about how he was as a person, complete with a bullet point list inc moving to MN for a "fresh start" but the defense can't comment on what that fresh start relates to (moving away after he was involved in an armed robbery and threatened a pregnant woman with a firearm after breaking into her home).... seems slightly unbalanced, if you're going to talk about his character and his past and open that up to the court then surely all of the past becomes relevant else it is rather one-sided and pointless to introduce.
Interesting - we hadn't had that bit reported on, Floyd's friends who were in the car say he took two pills in the car (before the police arrive) and then fell asleep and they couldn't wake him up.... the shop workers had been out to the car twice to ask about the counterfeit bill and request he pays for the cigarettes. Friends were worried police would arrive and tried to wake up Floyd.
so it seems he'd already got drugs in his system (a couple of pills) before cops arrived, already falling asleep as a result then swallowed more drugs when they arrived.
so it seems he'd already got drugs in his system (a couple of pills) before cops arrived, already falling asleep as a result then swallowed more drugs when they arrived.
Which crimes and where has that been claimed? You got a link?
Seems very dubious and needs context, I think you're mistaken.
Though a dead body (shot 8 times) was found in her rental car (car also used by her then-boyfriend, of course she stayed with him and no one knew anything about the body), she was observed visiting a known crack house under police surveillance and she was receiving packages for her drug dealer ex... but totally had nothing to do with drugs.
It's rather off-topic for this thread though tbh... and I do agree that the police seem to have completely botched that raid, the notion that the raid shouldn't have happened or the myths that it was some case of mistaken identity etc.. are silly.
As with the incident in this thread it got hyped up because of race but in reality, had little to do with race and various bits of context get ignored... like Taylor being some totally innocent civilian the police raided by mistake or Floyd's only crime was handing over a fake $20 bill... something anyone else could do by accident etc..
When in reality Floyd looked wasted when he was in the shop, handed over the bill, had the shop workers come out twice to ask him to pay for the cigarettes, then, on top of being wanted, took two more pills in front of his friends in the car... then had the police arrive and attempted to swallow more drugs still... and everyone ignores the rather obvious fact that this guy was high AF and behind the wheel of a car... exclaiming horror that the police would cuff and put someone to the ground for handing over a fake bill.
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I see you've ignored everything else and focused on packages immediately prior to the raid. Like I said I'm not discounting that the raid was bungled (or indeed aspects of the investigation), I'm disputing the idea that she wasn't a legit target for a raid. This is however off-topic, If you do wish to quote me and discuss it further then lets do it in another thread.
Just FYI, some other things worth taking into account - the official autopsy report + the 2019 arrest video & details.
I think a manslaughter conviction is a possibility but dubious, though I think really they should have had an assault charge there for Chauvin - I think Chauvin went a bit beyond what he was supposed to do but I also think there is plenty of reasonable doubt re: the knee being the cause of death as opposed to simply:
A combination of the drugs (already high in the store) + more drugs (two pills taken in the car when with friends before police arrived) + more drugs (unknown number of pills scoffed hastily when the police arrived) + his anxiety, raised heart rate at being arrested.
The 2019 arrest in particular gives some extra doubt here - in that incident, he follows very similar behaviour - he also hastily swallows some drugs when stopped by the police and importantly a paramedic later takes his blood pressure, notes that it is very high and essentially tells him that he's at risk of dying from a hear attack! He was taken to hospital and survived... but it gives the context, he has underlying health issues and drugs + arrest then could have risked a similar incident too. That throws plenty of doubt on the idea that Chauving killed him even if Chauvin's behaviour was going too far.
Any answer to this yet Andrew, since you're actively replying in the thread?
So that's a no then this was covered earlier in the thread FWIW... there are (very limited clips) allowed from the 2019 arrest video, the general behaviour etc.. isn't allowed nor are the comments from the paramedic about the possibility of a heart attack, it is specifically there in relation to the consumption of drugs and (objective) measurement of his subsequent high blood pressure + hospital visit.
He wasn't charged with a crime after that arrest and AFAIK no details of his past crimes have been allowed, so this is false:
His past crimes haven't been allowed for that reason, they're not relevant. His condition (high blood pressure) after being stopped and consuming drugs is however relevant.
The private autopsy won't be admitted by the prosecution, can guess why - most of it came from the bloke watching the footage and then giving a rather favorable (to the family) opinion... if we're being cynical then shaking down the city for a payout via a threat of a civil case was likely the motivation there (and they've now got the payout). They won't want that guy cross-examined in court so the prosecution isn't using it, only the official autopsy is being used.
Being a police officer doesn't change anything here. I don't think you understand that in the US justice system plenty of people take plea deals without actually believing that they're in the wrong. It is more a reflection of the risk they perceive should they go to trial...
In some cases even if you think you're likely to be found not guilty so long as there is a significant enough amount of uncertainty that you won't be and the potential punishment is much larger then going for a plea deal can be a good call.
You're projecting now, try to deal with what is being said, arguments being made instead of second-guessing and throwing in your own emotive arguments - this incident happened in another country and I'm not angry about it nor do the race of the officers matter to me, the race is only relevant in relation to the angry by others and the publicity.
You don't seem to grasp that this case is obviously rather different to the typical ones involving a police officer because of all the focus on it, resources thrown at it etc..
Well yeah perhaps but I don't think that argument is being made, AFAIK none of the officers had a history of interacting with him from a perspective of police/suspect (Chauvin worked shifts at the same club). If they'd had interactions with him in the past and that was a reason they put him on the ground etc.. then perhaps those past incidents they had would be relevant. I don't think the details of the 2019 arrest with other officers or say his criminal record in another state were things known to them at the time ergo (for the court case at least) it's not relevant to how they approached him here. for us at home however then sure, we can look at it and see that he's kicking off as he did the first time, trying to delay and distract while he consumes or conceals the drugs and sure enough he gets into some medical difficulties just as he did before .
This is naive - crimes aren't distributed evenly between racial groups on a per capita basis either, sometimes police do need to kill people - in particular armed, violent suspects (who are sometimes shot dead by the police). If the police in the US are a bunch of racist white supremacists then why do they kill or indeed arrest so few Asian Americans?
Given that black people make up a higher portion of armed, violent suspects then they also make up a higher portion of those who are shot by the police.
In an inner-city area you'll find a disproportionate portion of black people involved in crime too, in this particular case they're not targeting Floyd because he's black, they're targeting because he passed over a 20 dollar bill when wasted and after the store tried twice to get him to pay for his cigarettes they called the police... they're simply responding to that call... and of course once they get there they find someone high on drugs and behind the wheel of a vehicle - his race, again, has nothing to do with anything here, they have to arrest him and take him in, the fake 20 dollar bill is much less relevant at that point that someone high, concealing drugs, acting erratically and in charge of a motor vehicle!
Yeah but that warrants an assault charge (which the prosecutor really ought to have added for the jury to consider) not necessarily a murder charge.
2nd-degree murder seems like a complete reach and was purely political, the original prosecutor didn't go with it at all it was only added as a charge later. Can certainly see why they might attempt to charge Chauvin with manslaughter (3rd degree murder less so)... to me I think he's likely guilty of assault (or similar - whatever the US equivalent of ABH is etc..) possibly he's guilty of manslaughter but that depends on establishing that his actions were a significant cause of death... problem is there is plenty of reasonable doubt here that the combination of the drugs consumed - high when in the shop, took two pills in the car when already high before cops arrived then took more drugs when cops arrived + his anxiety at being arrested + his underlying health issues... if those things are really what is responsible for his death (raised heart rate from the arrest + raised blood pressure form the drugs and health issues leading to a fatal arrhythmia) then I can't see how Chauvin is guilty of murder or manslaughter... If however, they can demonstrate beyond reasonable doubt that his (arguably at times unreasonable) use of force itself contributed significantly to the death then fair enough.
There is also the issue that by US standards and according to local guidelines at least some of their use of force is authorised/approved.
Even if you're 5'9" and 140lbs (as Chauvin is) and they're 6'5" and 220 lbs (as Floyd is)?
You've ignored or rather brushed aside the pertinent bit of the post you're replying to though - that Floyd was having breathing difficulties (or claiming to) before he was even put on the ground.
Nope, not necessarily - in fact that isn't necessarily even sufficient for third-degree or manslaughter - big obvious problem is that they also need to prove that it was the cause of death too.
Second issue with that that you have glossed over is that it isn't merely "assault" it needs to be a felony... which is a bit dubious if it was an approved technique... It's one thing to say he's gone overboard or should have been more professional or made a bad call re: various decisions but that doesn't necessarily constitute a felony assault or similar... so in the event that the jury does believe it was the cause of death or substantially contributed to it then they could end up with manslaughter or 3rd degree, 2nd degree is still a rather big reach.
fuller definition here if interested:
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19
That's fine but the main question here isn't did Chauvin fail in his duty of care or was Chauvin a bit rough - it is is Chauving guilty of 2nd or 3rd degree murder or mansalughter.
I agree that their actions were bad and that they could have done much better here, part of that might be individual decisions part of that might be their training, guidelines etc... (in which case you can't necessarily punish someone for not being a perfect or very good cop and knowing when to apply some discretion and ignore the dodgy training or guidelines etc..). In an ideal world everyone is smart and competent (and it an easy assumption to make in retrospect) in reality, in the heat of the moment and with sub-par training and guidelines, procedures that are themselves flawed or dangerous then some average, mediocre cops could easily be like the other three in this incident and some mediocre to poor cops could easily be like Chauvin.
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