Derek Chauvin murder trial (Police officer who arrested George Floyd)

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Minusorange said:
His pause before he says yes, you can just tell he wants to say any answer but yes
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It's a crappy situation because he knows that doing the right thing will result in cities being razed again.
The same on-sided reporting that got them razed in the first place, will get them razed again because the MSM are lifting expectations by giving the impression everything’s going great for the prosecution.

The media can incite large-scale destruction, disruption, chaos, and murder, seemingly with impunity.
 
StriderX said:
The riots were just the beginning of a general revulsion at the establishment since it emanates from both social conservatives and social democrats. I don't think it's silly to think that political violence is becoming normalised.
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It's the left wing Antifa rioting over god knows what.
In one state they haven't stopped and it's nothing to do with this trial.
 
Reasonable doubt is plastered all over the case, you have one witness stating he did use knee on neck, another stating he didn't use knee on neck, you have video footage from one angle that looks like he did, you have the same footage from a different angle that looks like he doesn't.

The only consistant factor is that the fentanyl in his system was a lethal dose and highly like to have caused brain hypoxia. Essentially he was screwed either way.
 
MadMossy said:
The only consistant factor is that the fentanyl in his system was a lethal dose and highly like to have caused brain hypoxia. Essentially he was screwed either way.
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That's not a consistent factor though, a "lethal dose" generally refers to an LD50 which is vastly different if it's oral or intravenous, and can vary massively if the person has built up a resistance.

Even then, the LD50 is based on rats and mice and isn't exactly known in humans.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/Fentanyl#section=Acute-Effects

The lethal dose of fentanyl is generally stated to be 2 milligrams. This lethal dose considers that the individual has not developed significant tolerance
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https://oxfordtreatment.com/substance-abuse/fentanyl/lethal-dose/
 
It's consistant in that its the only thing that cannot be disputed. It was a significant amount of fentanyl in his system at the time of the autopsy. So the prosecutions case of knee on neck is likely to be disputed whats left for them to try pin this on DC? The testimony from the recent witness clearly said its extremely hard to do anything when you have a rowdy crowd, let alone focus on what your doing. So if anything the crowd are as responsible for the outcome as anyone else.
 
Minusorange said:
Even though the trial is public, why do we get these audio blackouts when they're discussing with the judge ?
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To make sure we can't hear what's being said. We probably couldn't anyway, but it's possible that a microphone could pick up something that wouldn't be audible to other people in court. Some stuff is supposed to be between the judge and the lawyers only. Say, for example, a lawyer wants to ask the judge if some detail is admissable in court. If other people can hear them asking, it's too late. It's already in court. I'm sure there are other things that should be kept between the judge and the lawyers. That's just an example that came to my mind.
 
MadMossy said:
It's consistant in that its the only thing that cannot be disputed. It was a significant amount of fentanyl in his system at the time of the autopsy.
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Sure, but that fact that it was deadly can very much be disputed. You say he was screwed either way but that's simply not true; even hitting the LD50 means it's a 50/50 chance, before factoring in that he's likely built up a resistance.

Then when you consider in there's not actually a specific LD50 per KG for humans, just an average amount and he's considerably larger than the average person it's pretty difficult to argue he would have died regardless.

I'm sure it contributed, and there's always the chance he would have died anyway... but he didn't seem to have any breathing difficulty before being restrained.
 
Raikiri said:
Sure, but that fact that it was deadly can very much be disputed. You say he was screwed either way but that's simply not true; even hitting the LD50 means it's a 50/50 chance, before factoring in that he's likely built up a resistance.

Then when you consider in there's not actually a specific LD50 per KG for humans, just an average amount and he's considerably larger than the average person it's pretty difficult to argue he would have died regardless.

I'm sure it contributed, and there's always the chance he would have died anyway... but he didn't seem to have any breathing difficulty before being restrained.
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The average lethal dose found in people who have died from fentanyl overdose is 9.96 ng/mL

GF had 11.0 ng/mL along with numerous other potent drugs including 19.0 ng/mL of methamphetamine.
 
MadMossy said:
The average lethal dose found in people who have died from fentanyl overdose is 9.96 ng/mL

GF had 11.0 ng/mL along with numerous other potent drugs including 19.0 ng/mL of methamphetamine.
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Prince died of a Fentanyl overdose, he had 67 ng/mL. As previously stated, it's entirely possible to build up a strong resistance and 10% higher isn't conducive to him ODing.
 
That's why I stated the average lethal dose amount, there are outlier cases, it can be as low as 0.75 ng/mL, but also as high as 113 ng/mL

What none of that states is how a high dose of fentanyl would interact with other potent drugs. The elevated heart rate, elevated breathing and numerous other factors could have easily contributed to the likely hood of brain hypoxia.
 
MadMossy said:
That's why I stated the average lethal dose amount, there are outlier cases, it can be as low as 0.75 ng/mL, but also as high as 113 ng/mL

What none of that states is how a high dose of fentanyl would interact with other potent drugs. The elevated heart rate, elevated breathing and numerous other factors could have easily contributed to the likely hood of brain hypoxia.
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And they just need to show reasonable doubt.

which, from what I can see, they have.
 
Malevolence said:
The BBC being biased and selective in it's reporting? Who'd have thunk it?
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Watching the BBC news at 10, their coverage (paraphrased) was:

He didn't adhere to training. He didn't de-escalate and should have. He knelt on the neck for 9 mins. His use of force was unauthorised and not per his training.

But then the BBC have already found him guilty.

A few days ago a US-based BBC journalist outright implied he'd killed GF by fatally kneeling on his neck for over 9 mins.

The BBC have made no attempt whatsoever to remain impartial - they are actively preaching his guilt. But then the BBC is a notorious race-baiter these days. Sad.
 
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