Did Brexit kill AlieExpress?

[Pudney]

I'm already paying HMRC for their time to get it right and tell me what I owe,

No you're not. When do you do this?

along with £8 to the Royal Fail for the priviledge of holding the parcel while HMRC does it's thing.

You're paying Royal Mail £8 to make the customs entry on your behalf.

Why would I then want to pay a retail supply chain extra money for doing what's already been done?

Because you're not paying someone else to do it.

For reference: I used to be an import broker for an international courier. HMRC has a system that commercial parties make declarations into. The idea that HMRC themselves deal with customs directly is rather old fashioned. I don't mean old fashioned as an insult, HMRC really did use to do all this back in the 60s/70s, however, across all taxes this has gradually changed to the taxpayer self-assessing and HMRC checking that assessment.

 

[Quartz]

It's still no reason for me to pay them for doing something I can quite easily do myself, and 95% of which is already done for me by HMRC anyway.

So tell me, did you pay? How many people do you think actually did?

 

[Roadrunner_668]

its all just taxation with different names

 

[ttaskmaster]

No you're not. When do you do this?

All part and parcel (pun intended) of the Customs Duty and VAT charges:
https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

You're paying Royal Mail £8 to make the customs entry on your behalf.

Among other things, which includes holding the parcel for up to 3 weeks, yes:
"Our £8 handling fee reflects the cost of clearing items through customs and presenting them to Border Force. This includes staff costs, storage, administration and handling of the item through Customs. The fee also covers storage and cash handling processes at the Delivery Office".
https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7208/~/help-with-paying-customs-fees

Because you're not paying someone else to do it.

Why then does something costing, as a recent example, £34 from China end up with me paying about £50 including all fees, while the UK shop prices are all £80-odd?
That's £30 extra to buy exactly what I just bought from the same place I just bought it, paying the same fees I did (or possibly even less) and then just selling it on. UK P&P is, of course, in addition to that £80.

however, across all taxes this has gradually changed to the taxpayer self-assessing and HMRC checking that assessment.

I don't do any assessment. I just get told how much the charges are, although it is usually by the delivery undertaker.

So tell me, did you pay? How many people do you think actually did?

Did I pay them?
No, I paid it myself... But I did pay it. I wouldn't have gotten my stuff otherwise... But I paid far less than I would if I'd 'bought British'!

 

[Pudney]

All part and parcel (pun intended) of the Customs Duty and VAT charges:
https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

Where does this say the Customs Duty and VAT charges pays for someone to tell you how much you owe in said Customs Duty and VAT?

Among other things, which includes holding the parcel for up to 3 weeks, yes:
"Our £8 handling fee reflects the cost of clearing items through customs and presenting them to Border Force. This includes staff costs, storage, administration and handling of the item through Customs. The fee also covers storage and cash handling processes at the Delivery Office".
https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7208/~/help-with-paying-customs-fees

Yes, so clearly the £8 includes the cost of Royal Mail telling you how much you owe to HMRC. Someone has to clear the freight through CHIEF and HMRC don't do this themselves.

Why then does something costing, as a recent example, £34 from China end up with me paying about £50 including all fees, while the UK shop prices are all £80-odd?
That's £30 extra to buy exactly what I just bought from the same place I just bought it, paying the same fees I did (or possibly even less) and then just selling it on. UK P&P is, of course, in addition to that £80.

Where in the £34 is the cost of making your customs declarations?

Not related to my point, but £50 sounds quite high unless it was particularly heavy or an item subject to Excise Duty. If the courier has made an incorrect declaration on your behalf you should really challenge it.

I don't do any assessment. I just get told how much the charges are, although it is usually by the delivery undertaker.

Of course you don't do any assessment, you're paying Royal Mail £8 to do it. But you haven't paid anyone else to do it so where is the double charge or charge for something that's already been done?

You seem to have a lack of understanding what happens in international freight, perhaps unsurprisingly as it's not exactly common knowledge in the general public.

 

[keenan]

If you look at AliExpress, whether the item is shipped from China or within the EU it now include added tax during checkout.

This mean all import/duty taxes will be paid by the buyer so there will no longer be any royal mail grey cards demanding tax or the dreaded £8 handling fee.

Better for low cost items, but much worse for everything else..

 

[Kenai]

I think ultimately ttaskmasters point is why should he be pushed into using a UK 'store' who import the product he wants and have to pay for all their overheads/profit as well the taxes and duties on the product he wants, when he can currently go and buy it directly from a foreign supplier and pay just the taxes and duties.

All the back and forth about who precisely is calculating what is due isn't really relevant to what he was getting at in the first place in his response to the 'buy British instead' idea.

His point isn't about the specifics of the taxes and duties, just about why he should feel like he ought to be paying someone else to buy stuff from China and sell it to him, rather than buying it himself happily as he does now.

 

[Kenai]

Where in the £34 is the cost of making your customs declarations?

Not related to my point, but £50 sounds quite high unless it was particularly heavy or an item subject to Excise Duty. If the courier has made an incorrect declaration on your behalf you should really challenge it.

£34
+20% VAT £6.80, £40.80
+£8 RM fee £48.80

... Not that far off.

But still, 'buy British' for £80 and let someone earn £30 off of you to get the same imported item because reasons.

 

[jpaul]

the market will compensate , if a middleman was making £30 of the £80 sale, and, remember, they are giving you tyour distance selling rights too,
then a new middleman will jump in wth a lower cut;
Chinese government might up the subsidy on the manufacturer too, or reduce any taxes at their end.


t'was an Interesting program on social 'influencers' and knock-off drop shipping 'millionaires' if they go under that won't be a loss
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000lj8c/click-the-influencers-and-the-knockoffs

 

[ttaskmaster]

Where does this say the Customs Duty and VAT charges pays for someone to tell you how much you owe in said Customs Duty and VAT?

You think the people coming up with all those rates do so for free?

Yes, so clearly the £8 includes the cost of Royal Mail telling you how much you owe to HMRC. Someone has to clear the freight through CHIEF and HMRC don't do this themselves.

And how would RM know how much I owe, unless HMRC tell them? RM are just delivering the message (pun intended), although they probably charge for that also.

Where in the £34 is the cost of making your customs declarations?

I don't make any. It's declared by the company that posts the stuff to me. Presumably there is a few pence cost applied for them filling out the shipping sticker, and a ha'penny or two for filling out the specific box that states the value for customs purposes, but that's all part of the £34.

Of course you don't do any assessment, you're paying Royal Mail £8 to do it. But you haven't paid anyone else to do it so where is the double charge or charge for something that's already been done?

As Kenai explained far more concisely than me (thanks for that, mate!), it's in the retail price discrepancy.

You seem to have a lack of understanding what happens in international freight, perhaps unsurprisingly as it's not exactly common knowledge in the general public.

I also technically don't pay 'Road Tax' either... What's your point?

 

[mumihp]

The only items I ordered from Aliexpress was rubix cube, same cube in the uk sells 2 or 3 times more. I had a quick checks, price seems similar but I think as long as you order, less than £15, you shouldn't pay vat or custom tax. My spending always is less than a tenner. If I had to spend more, I would buy from the UK to save the hassle if anything goes wrong. But before UK starts taxing these small busineses, maybe they should go after Amazon, Google, Starbucks.

 

[Efour]

Isn't it just as simple as 20% vat, I can't even remember UK vat, plus a handling fee? Making smaller purchases economically pointless?

China's deal for hugely reduced shipping should be reneged too tbh.

Sucks for the consumer tho.

If I buy from the UK now am I gonna have to pay bloody Swedish import tax? Urgh.

 

[Surveyor]

The only items I ordered from Aliexpress was rubix cube, same cube in the uk sells 2 or 3 times more. I had a quick checks, price seems similar but I think as long as you order, less than £15, you shouldn't pay vat or custom tax. My spending always is less than a tenner. If I had to spend more, I would buy from the UK to save the hassle if anything goes wrong. But before UK starts taxing these small busineses, maybe they should go after Amazon, Google, Starbucks.

Low Value Consignment Relief was withdrawn on 1 January. Those sub £15 orders should now have VAT added.

What do you mean by "going after" Amazon, Google and Starbucks? They pay the taxes the law requires them to pay.

Isn't it just as simple as 20% vat, I can't even remember UK vat, plus a handling fee? Making smaller purchases economically pointless?

China's deal for hugely reduced shipping should be reneged too tbh.

Sucks for the consumer tho.

If I buy from the UK now am I gonna have to pay bloody Swedish import tax? Urgh.

The handling fee is for the courier presenting items to Border Force and collecting any charges applied by Border Force.

 

[DeliciousStorage]

Well that's pretty lame, a £100 Android tablet is now £120. Thanks brexiteers.

I keep seeing ' this product can't be shipped to the selected region'.

It was always £120, the difference is you're no longer evading tax.

I like Chinese spyware in all my devices, very trusted source.

All smartphones are spyware, not just Chinese phones. Ironically, if you are paranoid about smartphone spyware then Xiaomi would be a good choice, they allow you to unlock the bootloader so you can install a custom ROM like LineageOS.

 

[englishpremier]

I don't see that anything has changed. for many months now the prices on Aliexpress had been creeping up and free delivery disappearing of delivery times being extended.

I've used it or planned ot used it in Greece, UK, Spain, Sint Maarten, Curacao and probably a few other places.

Often for bigger items (I bought some 280ah LiFePO4 batteries) it is better find the manufacturer and then go direct.

 

[krooton]

What do you mean by "going after" Amazon, Google and Starbucks? They pay the taxes the law requires them to pay.

Changing the laws that allow them to pay way less than most companies who can't employ those tax-reducing strategies.

Keep in mind the revenue these companies make, where shaving off even just a percent or two has a big impact on government coffers.

 

[jpaul]

so ebay did join in https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/buying/paying-items/paying-tax-ebay-purchases?id=4771
if this means they will now, clearly, distinguish real UK sellers , from those shipping indirectly via china, that's a benefit,
albeit UK flag on the add pictures is usually an indication.

Items delivered to the UK
Value Added Tax (VAT) generally applies to purchases by UK consumers, and prices on eBay.co.uk are shown inclusive of VAT.

Starting 1 January 2021, eBay is required to collect VAT on certain orders delivered to UK addresses:

• Orders up to £135 sent from outside the UK
• Orders where the item is located in the UK, but the seller is not a UK seller

You'll see the VAT included in your order total at checkout, and you can view and download a tax invoice from the Order details page in your

 

[Hagar]

Changing the laws that allow them to pay way less than most companies who can't employ those tax-reducing strategies.

Keep in mind the revenue these companies make, where shaving off even just a percent or two has a big impact on government coffers.

They changed the law in the last budget April 2020 making online marketplaces, search engines, social media services etc. pay 2% of UK revenue as a digital services tax to HMRC. Note not profits, revenue.

 

[Hagar]

NVM

 

[mmj_uk]

The CCP have probably taken it over since Jack Ma has recently disappeared after criticising them, they're probably trying to get us to change our mind on Huawei.