Did Brexit kill AlieExpress?

[alchal]

I thought the EU was reported to be doing something similar and got pushed back for now?

Also agree that it's about time tax loopholes for the rich and elite need closing before this little stunt.

 

[krooton]

I thought the EU was reported to be doing something similar and got pushed back for now?

Also agree that it's about time tax loopholes for the rich and elite need closing before this little stunt.

Tax us peasants more, so that the government can give more money to their mates through dodgy procurement. Pretty much SOP given the past 10 years.

Oh well, at least I got my Quest 2 headstrap cheap a few months back, but my wife is going to be annoyed, she buys lots of cheaper things from Ali (and has had no problems with them).

 

[jpaul]

I will also have to register my sale with DE VAT, and pay that to my taxman. And then I guess, somehow try to deduct UK VAT as a "cost of sale", but because there is no existing mechanism to offset one against the other - who knows at this point. In short - whichever way I take it - each item from my made up German company shipped towards UK generates: custom form, pre-emptive/pre-sale VAT invoice, me owing 20% straight away to HMRC, someone collecting it for me, and then the usual chain of taxes inside of my own country.

isn't the efficiency of excuting this process just down to having appropriate accountancy software, once that's programmed, is there really a big overhead ?
not sure to what extent the uk government has to certify the software.

This free trade agreement is not a Swiss scenario nor Norwegian scenario.

don't they have to pay VAT exporting from Switzerland too ? or, customs orchestrate that centrally ? how is it easier ?

 

[Minusorange]

Can somebody explain this

For providing this service, [HMRC] intend to charge a fee to every company in the world in every country in the world which exports to the UK," said Dutch Bike Bits on its website.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530721

What fee is the quote referring to ? I haven't read anywhere else of any additional fee so are they referring to the cost of the paperwork and collecting the tax as the fee or are HMRC really charging companies extra on top of the paperwork/tax collection at point of sale as it's made out to sound ?

 

[Troezar]

I hear the grinding of many axes and personal gripes in this thread. A glorious sound to behold

 

[Quartz]

will they close the same tax loops that the Tory toffs like JRM and the rest of their wealthy donors use to avoid apying tax in the UK also,

I bet Mogg pays more tax than you do. You do know that collectively the richest pay the most tax, don't you? The top 1% account for more than a third of all income tax.

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-income-tax-revenues-institute-fiscal-studies

They need to go for the big ticket items,

This is a big-ticket item.

 

[jpaul]

Can somebody explain this

I think is just hyperbole by dutch bike bits - registering for VAT doesn't have an annual fee, and BBC disn't fact check.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Aliexpress sellers exploit weak EU entry points for tax evasions and then able to sell knock offs at elevated prices to make massive margins and yet still appear compelling for British consumers.

You do also get genuine manufacturers selling genuine stuff directly, because even with UK import costs it's still cheaper than buying that same genuine stuff from from UK retailers.
Many of them only sell on AliExpress and Amazon and whatever, simply because those systems are already set up and trusted by consumers, and have far better business rates for distribution than anything they as a small company could hope to negotiate.

Now you can buy British value add stuff instead of directly funding the Chinese industry.

Except in cases where the Chinese company is the ONLY one in the world making that stuff.
So yes, I can 'Buy British', but that means paying the taxes of half a dozen middleman distributors and importers along the chain, rather than just buying direct from the original company - Why should I pay double the price for a bunch of other people to do something I am perfectly capable of doing myself?

 

[Quartz]

Why should I pay double the price for a bunch of other people to do something I am perfectly capable of doing myself?

So why don't you do it? There's nothing stopping you setting up an import business.

 

[Hagar]

Except in cases where the Chinese company is the ONLY one in the world making that stuff.
So yes, I can 'Buy British', but that means paying the taxes of half a dozen middleman distributors and importers along the chain, rather than just buying direct from the original company - Why should I pay double the price for a bunch of other people to do something I am perfectly capable of doing myself?

There is nothing wrong with personal imports as long as the country gets its share of tax. I'm not saying you don't, but everybody has a duty to pay taxes laid down in law in the country they live in.

It has been obvious that a black industry has grown on the profits from buying tax free and mis-representing values or just plain tax evasion. Whether it is small scale, an individual wanting just one or two items, or a bigger enterprise supplying others. The lost tax amounts soon grow large and if we want a health service or more benefits people have to pay what is due. Not what they think they can get away with.

This tax is not a new one VAT has always been payable, HRMC are just being more scrupulous about collection with online sellers. Other countries will follow shortly.

 

[ttaskmaster]

So why don't you do it? There's nothing stopping you setting up an import business.

I don't need to, and that's my point - I can buy direct from the manufacturer's shop on ALiE, pay the AliE commission (if there even is one), pay the import duties and still save 25-40% on what it would cost to buy the same damn thing from the same manufacturer in a UK shop.
Funnily enough, that's what I have been doing. No need to set up a business just for that.

Either way it still funds the same Chinese industry... but buying from UK retailers costs more and funds China less directly.

 

[Quartz]

So why are you objecting to paying proper import duties?

 

[Troezar]

So why are you objecting to paying proper import duties?

It's for the same reason collectives fail. Some people want to take out of life more than they put in. Others put in far more than their share. It's just the spectrum of people that exist, it's always been that way.

I try and use local businesses where I can but I also use the likes of Amazon, who should pay local taxes. I try to balance things out. Buying locally grass raised meat, our own eggs etc. I don't think it will hurt if we buy British a bit more where we can.

 

[Pudney]

isn't the efficiency of excuting this process just down to having appropriate accountancy software, once that's programmed, is there really a big overhead ?

Not really, there's the overhead of managing the process, filing returns, paying amounts due on time, and most significantly staying up to date with changes in VAT legislation.

There also becomes ancillary questions, e.g. are overseas companies now subject to the SAO regime? What happens if a UK customer buys and ships to a third country, is that a UK sale or not? What about the opposite?

And for everyone pleased that the companies are now paying the correct amount of tax. It's not the companies who are paying the tax, it's the end user.

 

[The Running Man]

Not really, there's the overhead of managing the process, filing returns, paying amounts due on time, and most significantly staying up to date with changes in VAT legislation.

There also becomes ancillary questions, e.g. are overseas companies now subject to the SAO regime? What happens if a UK customer buys and ships to a third country, is that a UK sale or not? What about the opposite?

And for everyone pleased that the companies are now paying the correct amount of tax. It's not the companies who are paying the tax, it's the end user.

The vat is doing what it's supposed to do stop the flood of direct from China products.

 

[Pudney]

The vat is doing what it's supposed to do stop the flood of direct from China products.

The issue isn't necessarily with the VAT, it's with the collection mechanism.

Edit: Also, that isn't the point of VAT, that's the point of import duties.

 

[ttaskmaster]

So why are you objecting to paying proper import duties?

I did already say, quite specifically, that I'm not.
I am objecting to the concept of UK businesses being "disadvantaged" because they merely buy exactly what I would have bought myself, but then want to sell it to me with all the import duties, and add fees for their unnecessary distribution and import services on top. That's like paying a guy to hire a man to contract a consultant to hire you a gardener, instead of just hiring the gardener - You're still hiring the same gardener, but paying twice for the sole purpose of giving someone else a salary for a pointless job.

 

[Quartz]

Because you are paying for their time to get it right. Of course, you could pay all those taxes and duties yourself, but would you get it right? Many ordinary businesses in the UK have people whose job it is to do this and they need to be paid. You see, up to now, those taxes and duties on small goods to individuals haven't been collected at all.

 

[Pudney]

You see, up to now, those taxes and duties on small goods to individuals haven't been collected at all.

For EU businesses this isn't correct. There were "simplified" rules, in particular the possibility that the sale would be treated in the country of the supplier rather than customer (and you'd expect a Dutch company to be able to cope with Dutch VAT rules as an example).

 

[Quartz]

For EU businesses this isn't correct.

Indeed, but there are a lot of countries outside the EU.