Did someone delete an XBox modchip question?
- Thread starter teabagger
- Start date
Nismo: A fair point but it has to be a two way thing. I make every effort to stick to the rules as do most other people and the rules weren't broken. The mods must be respected of course, but we deserve a bit of credit too I think and not just slapped down like it felt we were here.
Anyway, on to new threads I think
Anyway, on to new threads I think
I cant remember the thread in question that was deleted, but if it involved mod chips then surely it was against the rules, no matter what context it was in
Its like selling a mobile phone in MM, basically its illegal here but far from illegal in real life.
People need to realise the rules on this board dont necessarily reflect what it legal or illegal in the real world.
When did I say I believed that
Just because I'm promoting the rules here, dosnt exactly mean I'm ignorant to how mod chips and DVD buring works. I certainly dont need a reality check with regards to all that is being discussed here
Its just obviously not something your going to discuss here, which I see as being entirely reasonable.
Soldato
ahh but that is obviously different, right?
dvd burners
p2p software
modchips
speed camera detectors
let's ban them all
I'm kidding, bit it sounds stupid doesnt it?
Thing can of course be used for illigeal purposes, but its those illegal purposes that should be banned from discussion, not anything else.
dvd burners
p2p software
modchips
speed camera detectors
let's ban them all
I'm kidding, bit it sounds stupid doesnt it?
Thing can of course be used for illigeal purposes, but its those illegal purposes that should be banned from discussion, not anything else.
Originally posted by Nismo
I cant remember the thread in question that was deleted, but if it involved mod chips then surely it was against the rules, no matter what context it was in
People need to realise the rules on this board dont necessarily reflect what it legal or illegal in the real world.
Some guy asked for a recommendation for an Xbox modchip which isn't a breach of the rules. If it'd been for a PS2 one it would have been. If he'd asked about useage of the modchip outside of Linux apps it would have been against the rules - the rules state no discussion of illegal stuff basically so the they weren't broken.
Which is my point exactly, owning a modded xbox or dvd writer isnt illegal it's what you do with it that counts, following the same logic if overclockers allow a forum dedicated to optical storage discussions which respect copyright (as per forum subline) then shouldnt the same logic be allowed for xbox'es as long as nothing illegal is discussed ?
but as nismo said it's ocuk's forums. If we dont like it we can always go elsewhere.
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Well o.k, but it's not in the FAQ and my mindreading skills are a little hazy of late. The FAQ states no discussion of illegal stuff, nothing more nothing less. Nothing illegal was discussed so it's little wonder that people get a bit upset when stuff gets censored.
Go into a big chain and try to buy a modchip if you are so convinced of their legality.
Microsoft actually do not have to take people to court to prove their case, it's this little legal thing called precedence. Whether they chose to take it to court is another matter entirely (especially as mod chips is a civil matter, not a criminal one)
Please explain, taking the above decision into account and the grounds on which it's made (circumventing copy protection, NOT use of existing bios's or other infomation), how an X-box mod chip differs from a PS2. They both provide a means to circumvent the manfucturers copy protection, which is the act ruled illegal in the above judgement. Even using them to boot to Linux is still in breach of the judgement as you have to bypass the copy protection checks in order to do it.
Please do try, I'm interested to see what logic you are going to use. It's not going to change the fact that discussion of mod-chips here is banned, but I'd be interested to see how, on the basis of the above legal precedent, you don't think it applies to the X-box.
With regards to the DVD/CD burners argument, they are not illegal under UK law
, neither are speed trap detectors (That was from caselaw a couple of years ago), so I'm not quite sure where you are going with this. Discussion of how to copy DVD's or copy protected CD's is still banned btw.-Dolph
Originally posted by Dolph
Go into a big chain and try to buy a modchip if you are so convinced of their legality.
Microsoft actually do not have to take people to court to prove their case, it's this little legal thing called precedence. Whether they chose to take it to court is another matter entirely (especially as mod chips is a civil matter, not a criminal one)
Please explain, taking the above decision into account and the grounds on which it's made (circumventing copy protection, NOT use of existing bios's or other infomation), how an X-box mod chip differs from a PS2. They both provide a means to circumvent the manfucturers copy protection, which is the act ruled illegal in the above judgement. Even using them to boot to Linux is still in breach of the judgement as you have to bypass the copy protection checks in order to do it.
Please do try, I'm interested to see what logic you are going to use. It's not going to change the fact that discussion of mod-chips here is banned, but I'd be interested to see how, on the basis of the above legal precedent, you don't think it applies to the X-box.
With regards to the DVD/CD burners argument, they are not illegal under UK law
-Dolph
Nice points btw but flawed. The original question was asking for recommendations for modchips. I dont believe it's actually illegal to purchase a chip, you think it might be illegal to mod it which is a separate issue. Purchasing a chip isnt, just like purchasing a dvd writer isnt illegal. Ripping off films and music is but buying the item isnt. So if the poster asked for chip recommendations then he hasnt done anything wrong has he ?
P.S buying ps2 mod chips is illegal, whereas buying xbox chips in the UK isnt.
Originally posted by shephga
Nice points btw but flawed. The original question was asking for recommendations for modchips. I dont believe it's actually illegal to purchase a chip, you think it might be illegal to mod it which is a separate issue. Purchasing a chip isnt, just like purchasing a dvd writer isnt illegal. Ripping off films and music is but buying the item isnt. So if the poster asked for chip recommendations then he hasnt done anything wrong has he ?
P.S buying ps2 mod chips is illegal, whereas buying xbox chips in the UK isnt.
Erm, yet another one who has to explain why, based on the above judgement, you believe X-box modchips to be legal.
Remember, the judgement was based on the fact it circumvents the copy protection system, not the use of an existing bios. Given that, how are X-box and PS2 chips different? They both circumvent the copy protection.
-Dolph
The ruling/law was only for Sony and not across the board. Implications of an across the board ruling would bring modded dvd players/easter eggs into question which would be a nightmare.
info at http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-5279813.html
If you can show me the ruling where it says all mods or names sony, nintendo and microsoft in the ruling then fair play.
ruling below.
http://www.courtservice.gov.uk/judgmentsfiles/j2680/sony-v-ball.htm
info at http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-5279813.html
If you can show me the ruling where it says all mods or names sony, nintendo and microsoft in the ruling then fair play.
ruling below.
http://www.courtservice.gov.uk/judgmentsfiles/j2680/sony-v-ball.htm
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Erm, the article you've posted doesn't suggest anything of the sort
The case was brought by sony, but not limited to Sony. The ruling it brought can be followed up by other manufacturers citing this one as precedence. It then falls to the defendant to prove the precedent doesn't apply. Because of precedent, you actually assume it does apply unless the courts say it doesn't. For this to be the case, Microsoft would have to take the case to court on the sony precedent and lose, this hasn't happened.
What you are saying isn't how the law works, and none of the sites listing this information suggest it is, so I don't know where you're coming up with this conclusion, other than because you guys want to believe it.
-Dolph
Soldato
Dolph mate, not going to get into an argument on this one as its pointless - if OCUK choose to ban the word "flip" they could, and there would be little point for discussion - its a private forum.
The fact stands purchasing an XBox modchip isnt illegal. Precedent has been set, by Sony, but doesnt (yet) apply to any other - unless they circumvent copy-protection (see later)...
You mention going into a store to buy one - as a sign of its legality? There are 100s of things i can buy online - all legal, which large stores dont carry - but thats because of a lack of interest, not legality.
In italy its legal. Buy it in Italy then? Is that legal? Is it illegal to own one or to buy one?
As for circumventing copy protection to play backups - there are numerous (fiddly ways) of doing that without opening your XBox up.
What copy-protection means in the case of these modchips banned is that when you put a PS2 disk in, the BIOS of the modchip sends a signal to the PS2 bios that the disk is a genuine PS2 disk, and it continues to boot.
HOWEVER, the cromwell BIOS, which allows loading of LINUX (You find me a new LINUX PIII700, GF4 system for £100) doesnt tell the XBOX BIOS that its a genuine disk, it completely bypasses the BIOS and only allows you to put stuff onto the HDD - namely LINUX. You couldnt play a copied XBox game with a cromwell BIOS - with this BIOS all you get is FTP ability, and a powered on system - nothing else - it wont allow you to play copied or geniune games, hence not bypassing copy protection, and not illegal (imo at least )
The fact stands purchasing an XBox modchip isnt illegal. Precedent has been set, by Sony, but doesnt (yet) apply to any other - unless they circumvent copy-protection (see later)...
You mention going into a store to buy one - as a sign of its legality? There are 100s of things i can buy online - all legal, which large stores dont carry - but thats because of a lack of interest, not legality.
In italy its legal. Buy it in Italy then? Is that legal? Is it illegal to own one or to buy one?
As for circumventing copy protection to play backups - there are numerous (fiddly ways) of doing that without opening your XBox up.
What copy-protection means in the case of these modchips banned is that when you put a PS2 disk in, the BIOS of the modchip sends a signal to the PS2 bios that the disk is a genuine PS2 disk, and it continues to boot.
HOWEVER, the cromwell BIOS, which allows loading of LINUX (You find me a new LINUX PIII700, GF4 system for £100) doesnt tell the XBOX BIOS that its a genuine disk, it completely bypasses the BIOS and only allows you to put stuff onto the HDD - namely LINUX. You couldnt play a copied XBox game with a cromwell BIOS - with this BIOS all you get is FTP ability, and a powered on system - nothing else - it wont allow you to play copied or geniune games, hence not bypassing copy protection, and not illegal (imo at least
)
Soldato
Hats off to Dolph tbh, he's showing way more tolerance than I could ever muster.