Digital Identity

Deleted member 77746 · 27 Feb 2023 at 09:17

englishpremier said:
Yeah, the UK population does seem a weird in this regard. In Spain for example, you can't do anything without an DNI/NIE (a bit like a national insurance number). Can't open bank account, can't take out insurance, it's asked when ordering things online, can't even receive some deliveries. The Spanish are very private, yet no-one is worried about the government snooping on things people are doing.

If they wanna snoop they can as long as they doing a proper job keeping innocent people safe.

PlacidCasual · 27 Feb 2023 at 09:22

People talk about conspiracy theories like it's some uber argument to dismiss a concern.

The Prime Minister of Canada blocked the bank accounts of people who were taking part in legitimate political protest rather than engage with their argument. China already operates a social credit system. Social media is rife with people getting de-monitised or losing jobs because of their lawful opinions. I'm amazed anyone thinks central Government could be trusted not to cave to the pressure and using such tools to limit behaviours. The censorious current atmosphere makes that seem like quaint idea. It has become very common for people to want to curtail others freedoms for some act of political apostasy.

PlacidCasual · 27 Feb 2023 at 09:27

englishpremier said:
Yeah, the UK population does seem a weird in this regard. In Spain for example, you can't do anything without an DNI/NIE (a bit like a national insurance number). Can't open bank account, can't take out insurance, it's asked when ordering things online, can't even receive some deliveries. The Spanish are very private, yet no-one is worried about the government snooping on things people are doing.

Spain was a literal dictatorship less than 50 years ago. They like many other European countries have come to the current situation in the opposite direction to the UK. We've had 300 years since the last revolution one of the longest consitutional settlements in the World. Our Overton window direction of travel is substantially different most other Western deomcracies that weren't for British colonies. That's why they feel differently about it to us.

Mysterae_ · 27 Feb 2023 at 10:14

mid_gen said:
This is not new, and is well understood and managed with current technology.

Yet still happens. Perhaps nothing as high profile as suspected voter fraud or planes falling from the sky so doesn't get reported. Good luck getting anything corrected should it be altered.

It puts a new spin on corruption, just not the type the government are used to

.

mid_gen · 27 Feb 2023 at 10:21

Mysterae_ said:
Yet still happens. Perhaps nothing as high profile as suspected voter fraud or planes falling from the sky so doesn't get reported. Good luck getting anything corrected should it be altered.

It's trivial to guard against with a checksum....and no more likely to happen with a new digital ID than it is with your NI/passport number/any other document that exists in digital format. It's a total non-issue.

Mysterae_ · 27 Feb 2023 at 11:14

mid_gen said:
It's trivial to guard against with a checksum....and no more likely to happen with a new digital ID than it is with your NI/passport number/any other document that exists in digital format. It's a total non-issue.

The odds are in your favour. However, I've bookmarked this reply so I can come back in 12 years with a link to the Sun (or some other such rag) with the headline "man dies after cosmic particles change digital id blood type before transfusion" and say I told you so!

Werewolf · 27 Feb 2023 at 11:14

GaryTheSnail said:
If they wanna snoop they can as long as they doing a proper job keeping innocent people safe.

That's very trusting of a government that has shown they're utterly incompetent at protecting personal data, and that they're trying to crack down on things like people expressing opinions and exercising their rights.

Deleted member 77746 · 27 Feb 2023 at 11:23

Werewolf said:
That's very trusting of a government that has shown they're utterly incompetent at protecting personal data, and that they're trying to crack down on things like people expressing opinions and exercising their rights.

It is very trusting. They have a lot of data about people anyway so I feel what more can go wrong if they want things to work they will. If they want things to fail they will.

Hades · 27 Feb 2023 at 11:35

GaryTheSnail said:
It is very trusting. They have a lot of data about people anyway so I feel what more can go wrong if they want things to work they will. If they want things to fail they will.

How can you be certain the government we have in 2033, 2043 or 2053 will be as benign? They will have the same power, and more, that we give to the government today.

Deleted member 77746 · 27 Feb 2023 at 11:36

Hades said:
How can you be certain the government we have in 2033, 2043 or 2053 will be as benign? They will have the same power, and more, that we give to the government today.

I can't but that's like any decision that gets made in any business.

SpellowHouse · 27 Feb 2023 at 14:23

englishpremier said:
Yeah, the UK population does seem a weird in this regard. In Spain for example, you can't do anything without an DNI/NIE (a bit like a national insurance number). Can't open bank account, can't take out insurance, it's asked when ordering things online, can't even receive some deliveries. The Spanish are very private, yet no-one is worried about the government snooping on things people are doing.

And yet we happily give all our information to the likes of Amazon, Facebook and Google, yet we have almost no clue what they do with our data.

I really don't see why people have issue with us digitising certain documents and information. I don't care about crime prevention but I do care about the increasing difficulty we have with online activity. Everything is electronic now, yet we still rely on driving licences and passports to prove who we are. That's nuts.

Kutter · 27 Feb 2023 at 14:40

This coupled with digital money and cars with electronic shut offs. You'd better be ready to comply with whatever the government tells you to do.

Deleted member 77746 · 27 Feb 2023 at 14:51

Kutter said:
This coupled with digital money and cars with electronic shut offs. You'd better be ready to comply with whatever the government tells you to do.

Do people not do that already?

potatolord · 27 Feb 2023 at 15:08

englishpremier said:
Yeah, the UK population does seem a weird in this regard. In Spain for example, you can't do anything without an DNI/NIE (a bit like a national insurance number). Can't open bank account, can't take out insurance, it's asked when ordering things online, can't even receive some deliveries. The Spanish are very private, yet no-one is worried about the government snooping on things people are doing.

I was amazed that, in Spain on a recent trip, I needed to show passport/ ID to buy a train ticket!

PlacidCasual · 27 Feb 2023 at 15:50

GaryTheSnail said:
Do people not do that already?

I trust you are a recent turnip convert in that case.

Deleted member 77746 · 27 Feb 2023 at 15:53

PlacidCasual said:
I trust you are a recent turnip convert in that case.

I’ll eat anything if it’s food.

Deleted member 77746 · 9 Mar 2023 at 11:31

Lloyds have invested 10m in YOTI. This is a good move. If the other banks invest the UK could use this platform as a legit ID system for social media and other sites integration.

Lloyds Banking invests in digital ID firm Yoti — Proactive

Lloyds Banking Group PLC (LSE:LLOY) has invested £10mln in digital identity company Yoti, which offers digital identity solutions that are designed to make it easier for people and businesses to protect themselves online. The lender said the investment supports the development of innovative...

apple.news

Roar87 · 9 Mar 2023 at 11:42

PlacidCasual said:
People talk about conspiracy theories like it's some uber argument to dismiss a concern.

The Prime Minister of Canada blocked the bank accounts of people who were taking part in legitimate political protest rather than engage with their argument. China already operates a social credit system. Social media is rife with people getting de-monitised or losing jobs because of their lawful opinions. I'm amazed anyone thinks central Government could be trusted not to cave to the pressure and using such tools to limit behaviours. The censorious current atmosphere makes that seem like quaint idea. It has become very common for people to want to curtail others freedoms for some act of political apostasy.

A lot of people actually want more government control, they like what they see in places like China. For them safety comes at any cost to privacy or civil liberty.

Hagar · 9 Mar 2023 at 11:53

I have a hapless phone (or is that app less). Whichever, I don't run apps for anything. I expect I will be cancelled in this new reality.

visibleman · 9 Mar 2023 at 12:51

A national ID could perhaps/maybe be useful for those that don't have any form of ID what-so-ever, some elderly or for immigration etc.
But, considering entities can already do 'digital' checks against passports and driving licences (along with NHS and NI to some extent), i'm not entirely sure what the advantages are for me, and a lot of the population, of having another form of ID on top of all the other 'Proof of ID/Photo/Age' identification that already exists in the UK.
It does however raise a bucket load of questions though, especially around security and privacy.

And as others have pointed out, the UK isn't particularly good at developing national programmes that don't end up in overspend and years and year worth of delays.

thenewoc said:
The point is, it's unquantifiable and knowing how many have been caught is not relevant to the likely much larger unknown figure!

But that's an opinion and not fact; unless you have data that shows otherwise?

Voter fraud in the UK - https://www.electoralcommission.org...nd-research/our-research/electoral-fraud-data