Dinosaurs are not real :(

[bhavv]

It is an expression of profanity, one aimed at me as the quote demonstrated.

Feel free to man the 'whatever' up and stop throwing a hissy fit when you think you see or hear a naughty word. You are clearly a very overprotected individual.

I have 'O' Level understanding of Biology, yes, though you are trying to explain supernatural events in a natural way.

How is a human child being born a supernatural event?

Your arguements are like the other end of the scale to Castiel's.

I fully agree with you. My arguments are logically and rationally sound, Castiel's are not and fully based on his personal beliefs and emotions alone.

As for what Christians believe, the quotes I gave answer your question if you read them.

No they dont as they completely contradict what I have heard from Christians, and they are pure logical fallacies. It is absolutely impossible to believe in both Evolution and that 'God created everything'.

 

[SteveOBHave]

The thing that always gets me is that within religion people spend vast amounts of time pontificating, preaching and doing whatever they can to get closer to their 'god' when in reality both them and their fellow man would be better served by just being good - to borrow from Catholicism - Do unto others as you would have them do you.

Sunday Christians annoy me - those that spend all their time 'studying' their doctrine and then try to ram it down other peoples throats because it in some way makes them more holy annoy me significantly more.

Religion is a waste of time and energy that could be better spent just being decent caring people.

With regards to the subject matter - I'd much rather just be simple amazed than subsequently attribute it to a greater being. Why can't the universe just be ridiculously cool?

 

[Castiel]

No you havnt, not since it was posted. Give me an answer in your own words, not is baseless quotes by popes / catholics who dont have the slightest clue about what evolution is, nor which represent the majority of their follower's opinions.

I have answered the question Bhavv. I gave examples and evidence of why you are wrong. Regardless of your opinion, the Pope's encyclicals and the Catechism of the Catholic Church is, by definition, representative of the beliefs of the Catholic Faithful.

As for the other quotes, the person who proposed and initiated the letter was a man called Michael Zimmerman, who can hardly be called ignorant about Evolution.

"Since it is fundamentalist Christian ministers who have been shouting to the American people that they must choose between religion and science, it seemed reasonable to have thousands upon thousands of Christian clergy assert otherwise.

 

[Gilly]

No they dont as they completely contradict what I have heard from Christians, and they are pure logical fallacies. It is absolutely impossible to believe in both Evolution and that 'God created everything'.

Why?

 

[bhavv]

Your quotes are crap and do not answer the simple question I asked at all. They are all evasive crop out replies.

I thought you could do better than this, but obviously not.

Why?

How can you possibly believe in both of the following:

A) Man evolved from a primitive ancestor
B) God created Man in his current form (lolreligion)

 

[jmc007]

How is a human child being born a supernatural event?

Not a child being born a child being conceived supernaturally, via the Holy Spirit, AKA God.


From free Christian teaching.
CONCEPTION AND WEEK 1

The new cell has inherited 23 chromosomes from each parent, making a total of 46 chromosomes. We will study DNA a little later. DNA is God's design code in each one of us.

The fertilised egg travels down the fallopian tube into the womb (the uterus) where the lining (the endometrium) has been prepared for implantation of the egg.

Nourishment for the little baby is provided by the mother through the umbilical cord.

The baby's blood system and the mother's blood system are completely separate & distinct. Oxygen, and all the necessary building elements and nutrients are transferred from the mother to the baby via the umbilical cord.

It is a miracle!

WEEKS 1 - 4

The developing baby signals his or her presence through placental chemicals and hormones, preventing the mother from having her monthly period. During these four weeks, first the brain, spinal cord and nervous system are formed. Then the heart begins to beat and muscles, limbs, ears and eyes appear. The baby's body is being carefully made by God according to the design on the baby's genetic code, the DNA. God designed the DNA for each one of us.

The Bible says: "For you did form my inward parts: you did knit me together in my mother's womb. I will praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made", Psalm 139 vv.13,14.

In other words, God made you and me in our mother's womb. We are little people, not foetuses, in our mother's womb, being "wonderfully made", according to our genetic design code, our DNA.



I do not know how our heavenly Father, (Yes He is yours aswell Bhavv.) biologically got the other half of the genetic information, inside the egg. Though if He is the creator of everything, I do not suppose it was too difficult.

 

[Scougar]

bhavv's arguments are all based on his understanding, when the argument is about 'faith'.

The immaculate conception is as you say, a supernatural/miracle event... Totally agree with you on this. If you try to rationalise it as "she was raped/had sex with someone else/used a turkey baster", then at that point obviously it isn't taken at face value. I've personally never doubted it was a miracle... yet I'm personally at odds with the "primitive" vs "in his image", I'll completely admit they are at odd's with each other. How to explain it, I don't know.

I'm inclined to believe science yet it doesn't stop me believing there is Jehovah/The Trinity (Just to be clear which god I'm talking about here).

 

[bhavv]

Snip

I've personally never doubted it was a miracle...

Prove to me how miracles, and such miraculous childbirths are real.

 

[Gilly]

.

Ah, that's not what you said though.

You are arguing against a straw man, not actuality.

Find me a Christian that truly believes man was created as he is now. I can find more that believe in evolution. Yes, they may also believe in a creator, but that doesn't mean them opposing all evolution.

bhavv's arguments are all based on his understanding, when the argument is about 'faith'.

The immaculate conception is as you say, a supernatural/miracle event... Totally agree with you on this. If you try to rationalise it as "she was raped/had sex with someone else/used a turkey baster", then at that point obviously it isn't taken at face value. I've personally never doubted it was a miracle... yet I'm personally at odds with the "primitive" vs "in his image", I'll completely admit they are at odd's with each other. How to explain it, I don't know.

I'm inclined to believe science yet it doesn't stop me believing there is Jehovah/The Trinity (Just to be clear which god I'm talking about here).

You truly believe in the immaculate conception?

 

[jmc007]

The thing that always gets me is that within religion people spend vast amounts of time pontificating, preaching and doing whatever they can to get closer to their 'god' when in reality both them and their fellow man would be better served by just being good - to borrow from Catholicism - Do unto others as you would have them do you.

Sunday Christians annoy me - those that spend all their time 'studying' their doctrine and then try to ram it down other peoples throats because it in some way makes them more holy annoy me significantly more.

Religion is a waste of time and energy that could be better spent just being decent caring people.

With regards to the subject matter - I'd much rather just be simple amazed than subsequently attribute it to a greater being. Why can't the universe just be ridiculously cool?

It is cool, or should I say good.
b.t.w. That saying is not borrowing from Catholicism, it is otherwise known as the golden rule and is from Jesus's sermon on the mount. (The bit from The life of Brian where he says "Blessed are the cheesemakers.")
Matthew 7:12. Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets

 

[Scougar]

Feel free to man the 'whatever' up and stop throwing a hissy fit when you think you see or hear a naughty word. You are clearly a very overprotected individual.

So far, you've been the most offensive person in here.

How is a human child being born a supernatural event?

I'm sure there will be a put-down coming, but have you even read the bible? With this quote it certainly doesn't seem like it.


[quote='bhavv"]I fully agree with you. My arguments are logically and rationally sound, Castiel's are not and fully based on his personal beliefs and emotions alone. [/quote]

Seriously? lol. Castiel seems to be one of the most reasoned and rational here. Your the one that's getting in an emotional flap it seems. He's not favouring any side, yet you are approaching it like he's a blazing all out Christian. Most odd.


EDIT: Back to the original topic. Taking the assumption that there isn't a great conspiracy on the go.... I fail to see how people can believe that monsterous beasts didn't exist (like Dinosaurs). I wouldn't call those people stupid however, and I wouldn't insult them.

 

[bhavv]

Find me a Christian that truly believes man was created as he is now. I can find more that believe in evolution.

I know you can find such Christians, but I cannot believe that the former are not the majority.

You truly believe in the immaculate conception?

The MAJORITY of Christians do believe this, and that God created man with no other 'interventions' such as evolution. Im sorry if some people here refuse to accept this simply fact of life.

Seriously? lol. Castiel seems to be one of the most reasoned and rational here.

Of course you would agree with him when he defends your beliefs of miraculous childbirths while I do not

Being able to believe in both Christianity and Evolution at the same time is a logical / rational fail of the most epic proportion.

You either believe that God created man, or that man evolved from another species, or whatever other belief / theory you may have. You cannot believe in multiple theories of the same thing.

Similarly, you either believe that human offspring are created from a sperm and an egg, or you believe that babies are delivered by storks or some other miracle. You cannot believe in both as being possible at the same time.

 

[Gilly]

I know you can find such Christians, but I cannot believe that the former are not the majority.

I'm not bothered what you can and cannot believe, you are wrong. Young earth believers (and therefore those that deny evolution, creationists, whatever you want to call them) do not outweigh the rest of Christianity. Not even close.

The MAJORITY of Christians do believe this, and that God created man with no other 'interventions' such as evolution. Im sorry if some people here refuse to accept this simply fact of life.

Prove that the majority believe it. Until you can prove it you are spouting rubbish as fact

BTW: you are being unreasonable, I understand what Castiel is saying and his quotes directly correlate to the questions you were asking. You seem to be the one getting riled and the closest to throwing a 'hissy fit' as you so nicely put it.

 

[panyan]

God planted the fossils on the earth as a test to see who keeps the faith.

i really dont understand their arguments

I believe that the universe is as old as science tells me it is, i believe that dinosaurs are animals that roamed the planet millions of years ago, etc etc, but that does not stop me believing in a higher power, a "God" if you will.

What it does, is tell me that the bible has little fact in it, and should be taken with a significant pinch of salt. I believe that the universe has been expanding from a singularity since a point in "time" known as the Big Bang. I prefer to believe that God was the one who initiated that seed of the universe and has more concerns than a single rock within that universe called Earth.

The reason i believe this is that i am a man of science, but i do not believe that should stop us believing in a higher power and this is the only construct that i can imagine that satisfies both of those

 

[Castiel]

Feel free to man the 'whatever' up and stop throwing a hissy fit when you think you see or hear a naughty word. You are clearly a very overprotected individual.

I simply do not see the need for belligerence or profanity Bhavv...it merely detracts from any point you may have. It illustrates a distinct lack of vocabulary and intellect when someone cannot articulate what they mean with resorting to foot stamping and profanity.

I fully agree with you. My arguments are logically and rationally sound, Castiel's are not and fully based on his personal beliefs and emotions alone.

You argument lacks logical rationale, as you cannot seem to process that while some Christians believe a certain way, others do not. I have not any religious belief, any opinion I hold is based on an objective and logical dissection of the evidence available.

You are the one who is generally overtly emotional as is evident in this thread, you hold you opinion above all others, even when you opinion is proven to be based not on evidence, but on your personal interpretation of what you read and glean from the media and from other biased agenda.

I am as critical of peoples interpretations of beliefs as I am defensive of them, not because I share those beliefs, but because I do not like to see those beliefs misrepresented by biased anti-religious agenda and would rather the criticism was based on facts and a knowledge of the Religions of which are being criticised.

No they dont as they completely contradict what I have heard from Christians, and they are pure logical fallacies. It is absolutely impossible to believe in both Evolution and that 'God created everything'.

That is your opinion, and it is not one shared by the majority views held by the mainstream Judeo-Christian religions as I have illustrated.

 

[SteveOBHave]

It is cool, or should I say good.
b.t.w. That saying is not borrowing from Catholicism, it is otherwise known as the golden rule and is from Jesus's sermon on the mount. (The bit from The life of Brian where he says "Blessed are the cheesemakers.")
Matthew 7:12. Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets

No - it is not good, it is not bad - you're attributing a moral judgement to it which is foolish. It's just an amazingly interesting mystical and ridiculously cool place. I'd rather that it were a place full of things to discover, understand and question than a place that is answered by an overly simplistic sweeping statement like 'god made it and that's good enough for me' or blind faith.

 

[bhavv]

You argument lacks logical rationale, as you cannot seem to process that while some Christians believe a certain way, others do not.

I never said I dont understand this point, I just find it a logical fallacy to be able to believe in both Christianity and Evolution.

So far no one can even counter the simple question I asked or explain how it is possible to believe in both theories / beliefs.

 

[jmc007]

Gang up on Bhavv time yey.
Are you of Indian descent Bhavv with that name, also the way you write/think makes me think this? Or mainly I would like to ask you, what beliefs did your parents, or were you brought up under?

 

[bhavv]

You argument lacks logical rationale

This is my argument, as I keep on quoting and NO ONE even tries answering.

How can you possibly believe in both of the following:

A) Man evolved from a primitive ancestor
B) God created Man in his current form (lolreligion)

I dont see how my argument lacks logical rationale.

 

[FutileBreadMachine]

i really dont understand their arguments

I believe that the universe is as old as science tells me it is, i believe that dinosaurs are animals that roamed the planet millions of years ago, etc etc, but that does not stop me believing in a higher power, a "God" if you will.

What it does, is tell me that the bible has little fact in it, and should be taken with a significant pinch of salt. I believe that the universe has been expanding from a singularity since a point in "time" known as the Big Bang. I prefer to believe that God was the one who initiated that seed of the universe and has more concerns than a single rock within that universe called Earth.

The reason i believe this is that i am a man of science, but i do not believe that should stop us believing in a higher power and this is the only construct that i can imagine that satisfies both of those

If you are a man of science, as you say, why add a god to the universe? This is adding unnecessary complexity (Occam's Razor and all that). If god created the universe, who created him ad infinutum...