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DirectX 11 to come in 2009

jaykay said:
Can some one enlighten me to what ray-tracing is?
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[HoL]Cobra;10851747 said:
They might be skipping to DX11 purely because DX10 seems to be a flop.
End of DX10 was supposed to be much faster at passing things around the GPU, but in actual fact, it's no quicker, or worse than, DX9.

Maybe it's a good thing, and hopefully, they will get it right this time.
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Its faster, Assasins creed without any extra effects is faster in DX10 than dx9.

DX10 is supposed to be faster doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING, as dx9. THe trouble is, say 1mil particles is the limit on DX9, rather than do the same 1mil particles with less overhead giving it a little extra speed in dx10, they use 1.5mil particles as the overhead is gone, but drawing an extra 0.5mil particles will make it slower inevitably. That is why DX10 so far is fairly crappy, kinda.

Theres also the consoles grace period. the first 2 years or so of every new console releases games are focused on consoles strengths. PC's get screwed royally. The next 3 years are ours though and games, top end games are all PC based. In any industry the top people want to work on the new and best stuff. Sure EA will push out rehashed sports crap every year. But if you were a games maker/designer, would you get bored of obsolete hardware and want to move on to the best and latest tech, sure. It happens in a cycle for the last 15 years. SO dx10/11 will get its chance.

you've also got to remember, games now aren't dx9/dx10. they are game design, textures and story , thats 99% of how a game looks right there completely and utterly independant of the DX version. DX versions are essentially, I don't know, i guess a good comparison is say SSE2/3/4, MMX whatever, its hardware that can do "tricks" instead of doing 4 complicated calculations to do a lighting effect, use a shortcut. thats all it is, hardware acceleration of a few things essentially.

At the end of the day DX10 stuff doesn't look that different at all to DX9, because its not, 99% of what you're seeing is the texture design, which is nowt to do with anything else. Also remember most games and engines are in the making over 2-4 years now(games maybe more like 1-2 years, and engines more 2-5 years). So there still won't have been a single game concieved, designed, made and implemented all with DX10 in mind.
 
Yes but thats because basically every other DX10 title add's lots of particles killing performance. As far as i know ASs's creed is the only title where the dev's have said, they did NOT try to improve IQ, they simply went DX10 for speed boost. COH added a relatively large number of particles that really barely effected how it looked and utterly destroyed performance. remember, particles still get calculated by cpu before gpu, so increasing particles not only increases gpu load but cpu load too. THe reason COH was pretty much the slowest DX10 upgrade is because its an RTS. RTS's are the single game type that "can" be cpu limited, as they are essentially massive database driver games with a basic 3d interface to represent it. COH was cpu limited and they added even more particles which in a cpu , maybe not limited, but affected game, they added cpu load aswell as gpu load. It was just a joke of bad design.

Like i said, AFAIk this is the very first game where the dev's had the brains to use DX10 for all its advantages and not to simply add in a bunch of useless crap just so they can say, "look at all this crap we've added in, it barely effects how it looks, but we can do it, aren't we great" . Yes, AA seems at early appearance to not run faster in dx10 even on ass's creed. but DX10 is really geared to game engines really stepping up a gear and making the game much better at not needing AA in the first place to increase IQ without the power cost of AA. ASs's creed, at least while moving, felt very nice and not as highly in need of AA as a lot of other games.

At some point, the design idea is Dev's want, and dx10 provides, and hardware should be going towards game engines designed to doing higher quality IQ without the need for AA and using more shading power to do so, hence the 3800's design. The thing is, as i got at before, game engines are a long time in the making. THe dropping of AA isn't going to be quick, its one of those catch 22's, make hardware design for future but games are designed for more current tech. But without the shader power based "future" designs game engine makers will make games to use hardware AA as its silly not to.
 
drunkenmaster said:
Its faster, Assasins creed without any extra effects is faster in DX10 than dx9.

DX10 is supposed to be faster doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING, as dx9. THe trouble is, say 1mil particles is the limit on DX9, rather than do the same 1mil particles with less overhead giving it a little extra speed in dx10, they use 1.5mil particles as the overhead is gone, but drawing an extra 0.5mil particles will make it slower inevitably.
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And thats what most people don't understand and also what annoys me about developers giving DX10 a bad start, they should have just used it for speed up until the hardware has the power to keep the frame rates the same as DX9 with the extra candy.
 
bitterSTAR said:
I feel some people are also forgetting about the bloat that is Windows Vista.

My system isn't the newest and latest tech, but when comparing a DX9 game on Vista and than XP I saw a major difference in frame rates. One example is Flight Simulator (without any service packs), when I moved back to Windows XP I saw a jump in frame rates of over 100%!

Now, I'm not saying you guys are incorrect. But as there is no DX10 support on Windows XP, would I be correct in saying that the poor graphic performance in DX10 enabled games could also be related to the OS it is being run on? Would DX10 games run better on the same DX10 GPUs if DX10 was available for Windows XP?
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Then that's because you are unable to work with Vista. The fault would never be with Vista, it "only" has a new driver model.
 
Gashman said:
for example NVIDIA releasing there next generation cards, WHY?! there not even using the current generation to its potential with crappy drivers, give me strength :rolleyes:
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No, G92 is just a dieshrink of G90 with a smaller memory interface. Being a dieshrink it's a lot cheaper to build than the G90 based cards, so Nvidia will make more money from it. Not like ATi are putting any pressure on Nvidia to produce faster hardware at the moment.
 
Corasik said:
No, G92 is just a dieshrink of G90 with a smaller memory interface. Being a dieshrink it's a lot cheaper to build than the G90 based cards, so Nvidia will make more money from it. Not like ATi are putting any pressure on Nvidia to produce faster hardware at the moment.
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It's a die shrink of G80, with some minor tweaks such as texture compression ratio improvements, PV2.

Actually, going by nVidia's current namescheme as far as graphics cores go, G90 would be a 256 shader 128-TMU monster. Sort of what people were expecting the GTX to be.
 
I predict that DirectX wont even exsist in a few years time, and niether will graphics accelerator cards. Games will be rendered fully on the CPU. What with all these multi core CPU's appearing, why not? :D
 
Hi,

Well tbh I don't care about DX10 atm because essentially yes it has extra power and has removed bottlenecks that were apparent in DX9 such as particles and draw distance etc. But as it stands it’s not being used on more than what 4 games...

And I wouldn't put it past Microsoft to release DX11 along with their new OS to make us upgrade, and I’m not even going to get started on vista, let’s just say I’m holding out for windows 7 which hopefully will be a vast improvement.

But I am bothered about ray tracing and what it can do, I did extensive research on ray tracing and the PS3's Cell BE and the results look very promising for the future maybe not this gen but the day all games and graphics cards render completely in ray tracer graphics is the day games will finally leap ahead. Don't get me wrong they look amazing now but essentially have remained the same since HL1.

Thanks
XD-3

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Cell Blade running a Ray Caster Engine Demo in real time with 6 cell's. You can also run this on your Linux PS3 only with not as good frame rate :) For people in the know about ray tracing its worth a look!.
 
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