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DirectX and OpenGL will start offering low-level access in order to reduce draw overhead

Wooo about time!!!

However I :p at this "It will be also interesting to see whether Microsoft will pull another DX10 on PC gamers and make DX12 (or the version that will offer low-level access) exclusive to Windows 8."

Make that Windows 9!
 
I hope they make it Windows 8. Windows 8 is the first OS ive bought legally and even though it only cost me £25 i want my moneys worth from it.
 
Wooo about time!!!

However I :p at this "It will be also interesting to see whether Microsoft will pull another DX10 on PC gamers and make DX12 (or the version that will offer low-level access) exclusive to Windows 8."

Make that Windows 9!

I hope they make it Windows 8. Windows 8 is the first OS ive bought legally and even though it only cost me £25 i want my moneys worth from it.

I hope it is W9. I got W7 and and Vista from work (good ol IT fella) but sadly no W8 :( I have put off buying W8 purely because of loving W7 but W9 could be worth it for DX12.
 
This will render Mantle redundant tho. Why would a studio work on only Mantle support which is only available to AMD (currently) when they can just use DX or OGL which is available to all?
 
We still need to wait and see if either of them actually develops, much the same way we had to (or HAVE to) with Mantle.
A couple articles is a long way off having something usable and there's still plenty of time and opportunity for them to stuff it up!

It is annoying that new DirectXs almost always require a new version of Windows, but I was planning to skip 8 and get 9 anyway, just hoping it's not another WindowsME or Vista (might be a bit unfair to group Vista with ME).

I'm wondering how LtMatt got Win8 legally for £25. I'm guessing through a friend?
For a minute I thought it was that £25 Win8 upgrade Microsoft did early on, but being an upgrade copy you'd need a legal copy of a previous Windows to use it legally surely? (I'm not saying for it to activate, but if you asked Microsoft about it from a legal stand point I'm not sure they'd class using a legal upgrade on an illegal install as legal in the end).
 
Regarding windows 8, my nephew is at uni studying computer science. He has got copies from uni and ones as gifts from various work placements. As it wont cost me anything i think ill go ahead and give it a try. Stick it on a spare mechanical drive to try it out before deciding if ill use it on my os ssd.
 
Regarding windows 8, my nephew is at uni studying computer science. He has got copies from uni and ones as gifts from various work placements. As it wont cost me anything i think ill go ahead and give it a try. Stick it on a spare mechanical drive to try it out before deciding if ill use it on my os ssd.

It would be rude not to give it a try at least :)
 
Were struggling at the minute as we have 4K monitors around £1000 mark and a single 290X or Titan just about gets you 30fps so we need to pull 50% performance from somewhere this generation ideally. If you look at the FPS gained by Mantle without IQ bugs you could reasonably expect 9% performance increase over DX due to overheads and maybe more in those frame killing areas of maps. Even if Mantle removed those big dips and had equal fps to DX it would be worth it. It shows us that there are free gains to be had without even upgrading our hardware.

Im sure also if Microsoft agave us a slim and lean cut down version of Windows for gamers we would see more boosts not even connected to DX. There is fps leaking everywhere due to the bloated nature of the operating system. One example i proved was L4D2 where i ran consistent tests on all versions of windows and compared frames and smoothness and windows xp won everytime with horde bottlenecks taking the minimum fps to 45 on windows xp and 40 on all other os and an increased smoothness feeling to boot.


I think there is about 20% performance lost roughly thats my opinion on bloated DX and Windows. If we had that 20% and those bottlenecks sorted we could probably net 45fps on a single Titan and not be hoping Maxwell suddenly makes 4K playable.
 
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Yep I can almost guarantee you this will be Win 9 exclusive!!

If it's even ready by then!

That's fine by me as long as Microsoft change Windows 9 for desktop so that it is more suited to this environment - i.e. put much less emphasis on the metro layout, or drop it altogether for desktop and just have it as a tablet and touch screen laptop/notebook/ultrabook feature.


Unlike many others I am a fan of Microsoft (for various reasons, but influenced a lot by their support for the developer community with powerful tools such as Visual Studio - which is by far the best IDE I have used, but that's another topic I guess) and I do think that they will act on their words with DirectX - they do not want to risk losing the PC gaming market (plus other industries which employ heavy usage of DX) to a competitor.
 
If it transpires, the more the merrier, OGL, DX, and Mantle, thank you very much AMD for giving the industry a kick up the **** and pushing PC gaming forwards.:D

This will render Mantle redundant tho. Why would a studio work on only Mantle support which is only available to AMD (currently) when they can just use DX or OGL which is available to all?

Because Mantle is here and MS usually talk the talk but don't walk the walk in regards to PC gaming???


Their clear priority in gaming lies with it's console division...

The Alan Wake car crash springs to mind.:o

;)
 
AMD said:
Yesterday several articles were published that reported that DirectX and OpenGL are being extended to include closer-to-metal functionality and reduced CPU overhead. AMD supports and celebrates a direction for game development that is aligned with AMD’s vision of lower-level, ‘closer to the metal’ graphics APIs for PC gaming. While industry experts expect this to take some time, developers can immediately leverage efficient API design using Mantle, and AMD is very excited to share the future of our own API with developers at this year’s Game Developers Conference.

Source
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...rectx-12-will-imitate-and-destroy-amds-mantle
 
DirectX and OpenGL Claiming to have solved CPU Overhead – If True, Mantle is Dead On Arrival

[Editorial] The Game Developers Conference is coming up and both DirectX and OpenGL have queued up some very very interesting reveals. These reveals, as you might have guessed are both dedicated at showing their respective solution to CPU Rendering Overhead and Low Level Access (Microsoft Only). If their claims have any weight what so ever, it wold effectively make Mantle Dead on Arrival. Mantle Dead on Arrival
Microsoft and Nvidia Queue Solutions to CPU Overhead and Low Level Access on GDC’14 – Mantle could be Dead on Arrival
As you probably already know, Mantle Low Level API improves the performance ingame by reducing the CPU Overhead and allowing more draw calls to be submitted to the GPU in a certain time frame. Basically it massively reduces load on the CPU, greatly helping CPU-Bound situations and Weak-CPU configurations. And of course as the name suggests, gives better access to Hardware. Now it seems that other developers have felt greatly threatened by the same because both DirectX and OpenGL are claiming to have solutions to CPU Overhead and improved Low Level Access. If this is true, then Mantle API would loose its edge entirely because Devs will not risk adapting a new API without major incentive. Here are the scheduled addresses for GDC’14:
Direct3D Futures (Presented by Microsoft)
“..discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware. “
DirectX: Evolving Microsoft’s Graphics Platform (Presented by Microsoft)
“You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”
Approaching Zero Driver Overhead in OpenGL (Presented by NVIDIA)
“…present high-level concepts available in today’s OpenGL implementations that radically reduce driver overhead–by up to 10x or more. The techniques presented will apply to all major vendors and are suitable for use across multiple platforms.”
Here is what Mantle API’s main features do:
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Low Level Access to the Hardware
More Drawcalls (x9)
New Rendering Techniques
Leveraging Optimization from Next Gen Game Consoles
Now Microsoft is addressing both the Low Level Access issue and the CPU Overhead issue. OpenGL is only adressing the CPU (and Driver) Overhead Issue. Problem is, if these claims are even slightly true then developers lose a lot of incentive to switch to Mantle. DirectX is already established, and if a new patch, and a little elbow grease can give you the same result as Mantle then they wont adapt a completely different API. Heck, OpenGL performs more stably than DirectX on many occasions yet Devs haven’t adopted that. Ofcourse the final factor will be when GDC’14 actually comes, but until then, things aren’t looking good for Mantle. I would also like to add that I felt very disappointed when I saw these queues. If they can suddenly, ‘magically’ pull such solutions out of the air then that means they were least bothered about it before, and only AMD’s pressure forced them to concede.


Read more: http://wccftech.com/directx-opengl-...rhead-true-mantle-dead-arrival/#ixzz2vH8UNBNd

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wccftech's take on the future of Mantle and DX/OGL
 
lol Greg, in the other thread you claim you want to see Mantle do well and that it isn't dying anytime soon then you create a thread with a title like this :D
 
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