DLSS 5 preview

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Nvidia responded directly to Daniel Owen's video:

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He asked some very specific questions and goes through the responses.

So it does look like in order to apply the better lighting models,it is recreating the image with the better lighting baked in. But,it appears it is doing this on a per 2D frame,with some idea of motion vectors.

But dependent on what models are being used currently,what data sets they have been trained on(Instagram?) or the amount of data which is being used,it is making mistakes.

This sounds a bit like the DLSS1 scenario - will hold off final judgement for the full release,but it wouldn't surprise me if this undergoes a bigger overhaul under the hood closer to the date.

 

[mrk]

I also still find it funny some are comparing this to early DLSS 1 as if it's the same stuff different day. It's not is it because SR was originally designed to uplift RT framerates and whilst it impacted visual quality, it didn't add any new complete different layer on top, it just was badly upscaling until 2.0+

This is very different and even Nvidia's own words don't match up with what has been shown or said by other outlets who have talked to Nvidia engineers, so the full context remains unknown, but visually DLSS5 is changing appearance of faces thus amplifying uncanny valley, something which was never the case before.

Add to the fact that leather jacket man last year stated on stage that their goal is to AI generate entire game worlds in the future, you can see why people are perplexed and why this has blown up - Making HW prices sky rocket for the sake of corporate profit, whilst masking the marketing with gaslighting.

No doubt it will be a good thing eventually, but it was shown off too early for some reason. Probably because of NV's own goal in that they cancelled 50 super, and aided massively in the whole AI corporate demand driving prices up and now they have nothing to show for it so quick put a demo out of future features and pay a few talking heads in industry to promote it...

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

The individual developers and artists aren't handpicked for crying out loud. These are are individuals who work for companies who make the games it's been tested in so far. They're not executives making company PR statements, they're artists and experts discussing it on Twitter.

Do you really think that multiple individual artists & developers, who've actually seen and used the technology, would publicly go against this egregious onslaught of mob stupidity and put them selves in the firing line, especially after it's become so extreme that it has resulted in Digital Foundry receiving death threats; just to engage in twitter debates in an attempt to explain that they were in fact extremely excited about what they've been able to see and use, if they didn't genuinely believe it?

Good grief man...



Are you champ?

You're inventing a conspiracy based upon no evidence whatsoever, in order to avoid confronting the possibility that some artists and experts who've actually used something, disagree with you.

You actually believe that these people are free to give their actual, unbiased and unfiltered opinion publicly, without risk to their jobs or professional relationship with Nvidia. Just wow.

Do you believe this for all industries or just when Nvidia is involved?

Edit: Ironically the artist in one of your links is out wrong, based on what Nvidia has shown and the other is wrong based on what Nvidia has said in the video by Daniel Owen. So now what?

 

[VincentHanna]

You actually believe that these people are free to give their actual, unbiased and unfiltered opinion publicly, without risk to their jobs or professional relationship with Nvidia. Just wow.

Yes.

Nvidia aren't their bosses...

In fact, Starfield was partnered with AMD for example.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Yes.

Nvidia aren't their bosses...

In fact, Starfield was partnered with AMD for example.

Our mighty Todd takes no orders from anyone,even his own fans!

 

[mrk]

Yes.

Nvidia aren't their bosses...

In fact, Starfield was partnered with AMD for example.

Look how that worked out, AMD sponsored title not using AMD's own tech from launch and them struggling to add it for several months at least. Todd stated on a PR video that Starfield uses the latest tech remember, yet has no ray tracing.... He then said people needed to upgrade their PCs after he claimed the game is well optimised, then magically at least 35% fps boost came after a patch months later.

It's all a comic show from Bethesda.

 

[GordyR]

You actually believe that these people are free to give their actual, unbiased and unfiltered opinion publicly, without risk to their jobs or professional relationship with Nvidia. Just wow.

Yes absolutely.

Now... You're the one making the childlike claim that the professionals who are saying they like it on their own personal social media accounts, don't actually like it. So feel free to evidence it.

You're aware of how the burden of proof works right?

Do you believe this for all industries or just when Nvidia is involved?

More mental gymnastics.

Psychologists have a word for this you know...

Rationalisation is a defence mechanism where someone invents plausible-sounding reasons to justify their beliefs or dismiss opposing views.

For what it's worth, I detest Nvidia's corporate practices. I also happen to like technological progress with a passion, and I work in the software development field.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Look how that worked out, AMD sponsored title not using AMD's own tech from launch and them struggling to add it for several months at least. Todd stated on a PR video that Starfield uses the latest tech remember, yet has no ray tracing.... He then said people needed to upgrade their PCs after he claimed the game is well optimised, then magically at least 35% fps boost came after a patch months later.

It's all a comic show from Bethesda.

It's part of their charm!

I still have hope that the mighty Todd will deliver with TES VI.

 

[GordyR]

It's part of their charm!

I still have hope that the mighty Todd will deliver with TES VI.

We can but hope. I'm 44 now with a 4 year old son.

The last game I managed to actually play all the way through without my son throwing a brick of lego at my head, was Baldur's Gate 3.

The thought that TES VI might end up being an unmitigated disaster makes me want to die inside.

EDIT: On the plus side he seems to quite like Resident Evil: Requiem and plays it with me before his bedtime - Please don't call Social Services.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Yes.

Nvidia aren't their bosses...

In fact, Starfield was partnered with AMD for example.

So you think you can say bad things about a business partners product publicly (that they are trying to hype up) with no consequences. okay...
If that is what you believe good for you. Try it in your own work place and let us know how it goes.

Yes absolutely.

Now... You're the one making the childlike claim that the professionals who are saying they like it, don't actually like it. So feel free to evidence it.

You're aware of how the burden of proof works right?

I don't need to prove your strawman. You clearly either don't get it or are intentionally try to misconstrue my point. Probably because you were too busy looking up words that Psychologist use.

 

[GordyR]

I don't need to prove your strawman.

You don't know what a Strawman argument is do you?

Here, let me help. A good example would be from yourself, when you said this:

So you think you can say bad things about a business partners product publicly (that they are trying to hype up) with no consequences. okay...

That's a strawman... No one said they had to say bad things. In your fantasy land, if they didn't truly like what they saw, then they simply could have said nothing about it at all on their own social media accounts, and suffered no consequences whatsoever.

This is the problem with these silly mental gymnastics. They always collapse under the slightest scrutiny.

You clearly either don't get it or are intentionally try to misconstrue my point. Probably because you were too busy looking up words that Psychologist use.

Wait... Are you now saying that you don't think they're only being positive about DLSS 5 on their personal twitter accounts, because they "have to"?

Which is it? Do you believe they're lying about their true opinions or not?

 

[WiGgLr]

Our mighty Todd takes no orders from anyone,even his own fans!

I just read that Todd has an Only Fans

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I just read that Todd has an Only Fans

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

That's a strawman... No one said they had to say bad things.

Oh the Irony.

In your fantasy land, if the didn't truly like what they saw, then they simply could have said nothing about it at all on their own scoial media accounts, and suffered no consequences whatsoever.

You are soo close to finally getting it. You are still off the mark though but you at least managed to get close. Well done.

This is the problem with these silly mental gymnastics. They always collapse under the slightest scrutiny.

Wait... Are you now saying that you don't think they're only being positive about DLLS 5 on their personal twitter accounts, because they "have to"?

Which is it? Do you believe they're lying about their true opinions or not?

Others have got the point long before now. If you still don't get it I can't help you.

 

[GordyR]

Oh the Irony.

You are soo close to finally getting it. You are still off the mark though but you at least managed to get close. Well done.

Others have got the point long before now. If you still don't get it I can't help you.

Well that was an interesting response... Or should I say, lack of response?

Completely meaningless and ridiculously void of, well, anything at all really.

I guess that's all that's left when you've found yourself making a silly, unsubstantiated claim about what other people do or do not believe.

Anyway, now that this silly exchange has run out wiggle room - back to the topic at hand.

 

[Tinek]

Well, the whole "it's only affecting lighting" is pretty vague. It's mean, it's affecting the final pixel output....everything that is visible is 'lighting'.

I'd really like to see a toned down version running against an already good realistic style source scene, and see if it can push it that much further forward, because I think the fundamental improvements to skin, hair, fabric rendering *are* an improvement.

Someone already done online tweaking with just changing tone mapping and it seems to be looking much better and much closer to artist's intent - though it doesn't fix plastic surgery etc. that this model is adding to faces often.

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[Tinek]

Some of the most downloaded mods for Skyrim and Fallout are the character mods. But even I use them because the original models are terrible - visible neck seems,square feet and other weirdness. Also,very few actual variations in NPC designs(its a world of clones apparently). Also some of the animations are also fixed.

Bethesda is generally not very good in graphics, that's not new But there's also a difference between improving details and replacing characters completely with some new ultra pretty ones, that's seems very popular. I'm sure a lot of people would love to have sliders added to dlss 5 to improve certain geometry too - if you catch my drift

 

[Tinek]

Nvidia responded directly to Daniel Owen's video:

Reddit - The heart of the internet

www.reddit.com

He asked some very specific questions and goes through the responses.

So it does look like in order to apply the better lighting models,it is recreating the image with the better lighting baked in. But,it appears it is doing this on a per 2D frame,with some idea of motion vectors.

But dependent on what models are being used currently,what data sets they have been trained on(Instagram?) or the amount of data which is being used,it is making mistakes.

This sounds a bit like the DLSS1 scenario - will hold off final judgement for the full release,but it wouldn't surprise me if this undergoes a bigger overhaul under the hood closer to the date.

I posted this last evening And yes, training data seems to be the biggest problem currently as that's what influences how it changes faces. All the big corporations working with AI just scrape social media (which contain a lot of fake AI generated profiles and photos these days!) and maybe buy some stock photos. Hence none of those look very realistic, as it's trained on very biased data.

 

[GordyR]

Someone already done online tweaking with just changing tone mapping and it seems to be looking much better and much closer to artist's intent - though it doesn't fix plastic surgery etc. that this model is adding to faces often.

Reddit - The heart of the internet

www.reddit.com

A good find.

Given that Grace was the one most people seemed to be saying was the most egregious example, this shot below is particularly interesting in so much that it shows clearly that it's not actually messing with the geometry or enlarging characters lips or anything whatsoever:

DLSS 5 de-HDR | Slowpoke Pics

Slowpoke Pics image comparison service

slow.pics

What a load of silly hooo-haaa about a highly promising new technology... That can easily be turned off.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Someone already done online tweaking with just changing tone mapping and it seems to be looking much better and much closer to artist's intent - though it doesn't fix plastic surgery etc. that this model is adding to faces often.

Reddit - The heart of the internet

www.reddit.com

The top comment is very interesting. If Nvidia gives devs ultimate control on the strength of this tech, i suspect that for AAA games (that aren't sponsored by Nvidia) this will be the ultimate fate of DLSS5. A post processing affect that you need to pixel peep to spot the difference. Simply just a different look to the final image.