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DLSS 5 preview

Whatever its doing, they got me..... if they can fix the performance. I also think its not going to work for every game, and that's fine.

This and probably Cyberpunk are the perfect showcase for it.
If the model is well trained on proper data (not just humans), it can have nice results in some situations for sure but also really bad in other. Performance though - I would be very happy to see them improve it further but with current tech it seems unlikely. They could add more tensors in future GPUs but that would likely replace a bunch of standard cuda cores and then most other games will suffer to get a faster AI processing. Still, not something current GPUs can do, so I suspect there would have to be some compromises made here to make it faster - put it before upscaling in lower resolution, make the model smaller and faster (but worse quality most likely) etc. Looking forward to see what Nvidia will come up with, considering their revenue, but cynic on me suspects they will want to sell new/future GPUs with AI tech and not make things better for older ones. Which is why they initially wanted it to be Blackwell only and then got forced to make semi-promise to give it to 4k too. That said, officially this isn't even coming to many games (all mods aside) so it might be much less popular than some people imagine.

DLSS 5.0 adds 8-13.7ms input lag. I'm out, worst tech ever etc.

I really liked the one thing that said in this video as most people even here do not think about it at all - DLSS5 cost about 10ms of processing time per frame. If a good developer got free extra 10ms to use to generate a frame, they could do wonders. That means better quality than DLSS5 could do, in engine. In other words, even DF admits, this is a very interesting but weird tech as it cost more than what you could do in the engine with better results if you wanted to spend those 10ms extra. But then people would complain the game works way too slow and yet with dlss5 causing same FPS hit they seem very happy to use it in many cases. To me that sounds like another tool to offload the quality of graphics from Devs to end user, which is generally very bad.

Hah, as I commented earlier, modders move way faster and with mind better result in this case than the multi billion corporation. Not very surprising these days - Nvidia CEO himself said many time AI at home will speed up development of many things. Just be didn't realise that would make his own company just look bad :)

I remember the amount of crying and screaming when DLSS was initially released, And then people started to actually use it and all went quiet.
Did it go quiet or did you simply gravitate to places that only praise it? I still see people complaining left and right along with people praising it left and right, as I don't like to be stuck in one place with one sided opinions.
Same thing has been happening with technology all throughout human history, People cry and scream but then they actually use the tech and they stop crying and screaming, Then the next innovation comes along and the crying and screaming starts again.
Uff, that's a really bad take. No, most cries about tech was historically done by people whom it affected negatively directly and threatened their livelihood. Not because of some "I don't like new things!". And in many cases those people really suffered but the majority benefited and majority tends to win. In this case it's really just a bunch of nerds (like new :p) that care either way because most gamers do not care one bit about such things, they only want fun game and often stick to just one for months before getting another one (as multiple studies shown) etc. You are confounding social media outcry with what people really do irl here, IMHO - one tends to have nothing to do with the other.
 
I really liked the one thing that said in this video as most people even here do not think about it at all - DLSS5 cost about 10ms of processing time per frame. If a good developer got free extra 10ms to use to generate a frame, they could do wonders. That means better quality than DLSS5 could do, in engine. In other words, even DF admits, this is a very interesting but weird tech as it cost more than what you could do in the engine with better results if you wanted to spend those 10ms extra. But then people would complain the game works way too slow and yet with dlss5 causing same FPS hit they seem very happy to use it in many cases. To me that sounds like another tool to offload the quality of graphics from Devs to end user, which is generally very bad.

10ms is the minimum, that's with a 5090, the lower down the GPU tier you go the worse it gets and when you add frame gen on top of that try and get some FPS back the latency starts to add up to something that feels really laggy.

All of these technologies have their own render time that gets added and stacked on top of your frame render time and eachother.
 
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10ms is the minimum, that's with a 5090, the lower down the GPU tier you go the worse it gets and when you add frame gen on top of that try and get some FPS back the latency starts to add up to something that feels really laggy.

All of these technologies have their own render time that gets added and stacked on top of your frame render time and eachother.

Will be interesting what Nvidia do over the next few months with performance, Apparently it's going to be doubled which I'm taking with a grain of salt but will be interesting to see.
 
I really liked the one thing that said in this video as most people even here do not think about it at all - DLSS5 cost about 10ms of processing time per frame. If a good developer got free extra 10ms to use to generate a frame, they could do wonders. That means better quality than DLSS5 could do, in engine. In other words, even DF admits, this is a very interesting but weird tech as it cost more than what you could do in the engine with better results if you wanted to spend those 10ms extra. But then people would complain the game works way too slow and yet with dlss5 causing same FPS hit they seem very happy to use it in many cases. To me that sounds like another tool to offload the quality of graphics from Devs to end user, which is generally very bad.

I disagree with this.

The reason why we are going down this path of AI is because moores law is indeed dead. You will not see exponentially more powerful hardware able to run games at this same level of detail using simply compute.

This is why instead of relying on pure compute they are going down the AI route which is sort of like a software emulation level which can accelerate much faster than the lagging hardware advances.

So basically moores law in this instance has moved from hardware to the software side where we will see continued doubling of "emulated compute" every 2 years.

Do you really think that if Devs coded their games to be more detailed to use up this 10ms buffer we would be able to run the games at all with current gen or even near future gen hardware?

The only reason why we are having this conversation is because it's here only by virtue of DLSS5 and AI.

Even now a 5080 would struggle with a lot of games run full RT and PT at 4k with no upscaling.

Why do you think it's a good idea to add an additional 10ms of computation to this equation and think we can still carry on down the hardware route?
 
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how is the power usage when use are using dlss5?

Jokes aside, I would genuinely use some sensible caution running these DLSS5 mods. They absolutely gun your power draw to the max possible - way more so than any path/ ray tracing does in most games.

I make sure I run my most conservative undervolt, and I have the backup of a Wireview Pro 2 now on my card, so I feel somewhat reassured to be testing all this stuff.
 
Also, the file that's out there that everyone is using for these mods, is the one in NBA 2k27. So it's worth bearing in mind that the model has essentially been trained on 7 foot tall black men, so it's going to give some 'odd' results at times perhaps ;-)
 
I disagree with this.

The reason why we are going down this path of AI is because moores law is indeed dead. You will not see exponentially more powerful hardware able to run games at this same level of detail using simply compute.

This is why instead of relying on pure compute they are going down the AI route which is sort of like a software emulation level which can accelerate much faster than the lagging hardware advances.

So basically moores law in this instance has moved from hardware to the software side where we will see continued doubling of "emulated compute" every 2 years.

I remember one of the head AI fellows at Nvidia, Bryan Catanzaro I think he's called, Talking on this when AI within Nvidia was starting to gain traction around the RTX 2000 launch, He said rendering the traditional way is extremely inefficient both at the compute level and at the hardware level and going forward AI will be needed unless we want monolithic dies the size of dinner plates with 4kw power usage.
 
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Will be interesting what Nvidia do over the next few months with performance, Apparently it's going to be doubled which I'm taking with a grain of salt but will be interesting to see.

I hope so because i don't much like the idea of a £4,000 GPU....

I disagree with this.

The reason why we are going down this path of AI is because moores law is indeed dead. You will not see exponentially more powerful hardware able to run games at this same level of detail using simply compute.

This is why instead of relying on pure compute they are going down the AI route which is sort of like a software emulation level which can accelerate much faster than the lagging hardware advances.

So basically moores law in this instance has moved from hardware to the software side where we will see continued doubling of "emulated compute" every 2 years.

Do you really think that if Devs coded their games to be more detailed to use up this 10ms buffer we would be able to run the games at all with current gen or even near future gen hardware?

The only reason why we are having this conversation is because it's here only by virtue of DLSS5 and AI.

Even now a 5080 would struggle with a lot of games run full RT and PT at 4k.

Why do you think it's a good idea to add an additional 10ms of computation to this equation and think we can still carry on down the hardware route?

Yes, i said this myself a few pages back, i think they also know they cannot keep ahead of AMD in performance. The rumours of RDNA 5 performance are so insane i'm not even going to quote them here but think of this... the RX 9070 XT is very small, its 350mm^2, that is about the same size as an RX 6700 XT, significant less than half the size of a 5090 at significantly more than half the performance and its on TSMC 5N vs the 5090 on TSMC 4N, people do not realise just how good RDNA 4 actually is, with RDNA 5 moving to TSMC 2N, a huge jump... doing that and if they also decide to make it fatter... RDNA 4 on TSMC 5N is the smallest halo card AMD have ever made and by some margin so there is massive room for RNDA 5 to grow.... it could be an absolute unit if AMD chose to do that.

I prefer DLSS 5 to Path Tracing, i think it looks better, makes a bigger difference and despite its performance problems even now its still more performant than Path Tracing.

If this is what AI can do for graphics i'm all in....
 
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I hope so because i don't much like the idea of a £4,000 GPU....

Yes, i said this myself a few pages back, i think they also know they cannot keep ahead of AMD in performance. The rumours of RDNA 5 performance are so insane i'm not even going to quote them here but think of this... the RX 9070 XT is very small, its 350mm^2, that is about the same size as an RX 6700 XT, significant less than half the size of a 5090 at significantly more than half the performance and its on TSMC 5N vs the 5090 on TSMC 4N, people do not realise just how good RDNA 4 actually is, with RDNA 5 moving to TSMC 2N, a huge jump... doing that and if they also decide to make it fatter... RDNA 4 on TSMC 5N is the smallest halo card AMD have ever made and by some margin so there is massive room for RNDA 5 to grow.... it could be an absolute unit if AMD chose to do that.

I prefer DLSS 5 to Path Tracing, i think it looks better, makes a bigger difference and despite its performance problems even now its still more performant than Path Tracing.

If this is what AI can do for graphics i'm all in....

Character faces aside, It's the world enhancements I find really nice, I was playing Lord of the Rings War in the North from 2011 a few days ago and it massively enhances lighting and detail, It looks like a very high end remaster.
 
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Also, the file that's out there that everyone is using for these mods, is the one in NBA 2k27. So it's worth bearing in mind that the model has essentially been trained on 7 foot tall black men, so it's going to give some 'odd' results at times perhaps ;-)

Sure.... I don't think that matters, its not doing anything to the textures, all its doing is correcting bad lighting, the woman on the left is the same woman on the right, the detail is in the models textures, the same on the left as the right they are the same textures with the same detail, this is an extreme example of the lighting bleaching out all of the detail in the face but also shows just how good it is at correcting that lighting.

What i find interesting about this is developers can look at stuff like this and immediately see where they are going wrong with the lighting and correct it themselves, in this case there is no direct lighting in the area, its all ambient, so the engine is just paining a flat colour over her face, (the albedo texture which is just the top layer) so none of the underlaying textures are being rendered belching the detail, the AI sees those textures, sees they aren't being rendered and then renders them.

Skin colour is irrelevant, it doesn't care about that.

nfpEomX.jpg

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right so i have installed dlss 5 one click but when i launch a dlss game i change the NR and nothing happens?
 
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