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Do AMD provide any benefit to the retail GPU segment.

Tech journalists giving AMD the "Budget Brand" label are not helping, no matter how well intentioned, or not.

They are still at it today, in part 3 of HUB Q&A they listed everything why Nvidia are better, and then suggested AMD's GPU's therefore should be cheaper, and then again could not help themselves poking fun at the 6500XT should be $50.

Not helpful, the "Budget" branding is fatal to any hardware vendor, who buys BioStar Motherboards? No wonder AMD are raging against it.

For these people their goal is to try and pressure AMD, being the easier target, to drive prices down and down and... thinking that in turn will drive Nvidia's prices down and we can all buy cheaper Nvidia GPU's, or AMD, if you're an AMD fanboy or cheap, because why else would you.
This is delusion.
Remember ATI? the good'ol days of half the price equivilent GPU's, still bought Nvidia though, ATI went bust.

AMD know this, and they feel burned by it, they are not playing that game they bailed ATI out.... so the more angry and determined these people get in trying. Not once do they consider that it also works the other way round, that saying DLSS is nice but not a reason to push the prices right up might be a better strategy, no, now that AMD are so stubborn in not doing what we want its personal with them.

IMO AMD's mind set is if we drop prices we just lose money, we don't gain anything for it, are they wrong? AMD also need an attitude adjustment but it takes them and these ^^^^ people working together.
 
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But a Navi 33 based RX7700XT is no different than Nvidia using an RTX3050 replacement as the RTX4060TI,or an RTX3060 replacement as an RTX4070.

In fact in some ways it would be worse(unless it was very,very cheap),because at least TSMC 4N is more expensive.TSMC 6NM is a refined 7NM process,and it wouldn't surprise me if 6NM Navi 33 costs less for AMD to make than the larger Navi 23 in 2021 and Navi 10 in 2019. They are most likely able to use the same reference PCBs too.

If they do it they are just being opportunistic and it means we have effective pricing cartel in dGPUs now. Have people forgotten this:
www.pcgamesn.com

AMD’s RX 5700 XT was called RX 690 in its E3 presentation slides

Evidence of the disregarded graphics card branding comes straight from AMD's E3 press deck
www.pcgamesn.com www.pcgamesn.com

The RX5700XT was called an RX690. It most likely was going to a bit cheaper,as rumours hinted at. Instead we had AMD taking advantage of Turing in jacking up the pricing of the Polaris replacement. Then Nvidia did the obvious thing and dropped the RTX2060 pricing beforehand and AMD had to do so too. But apparently they jebaited Nvidia.

So please,please just unlaunch any Navi 33 based RX7700 series dGPU. Keep Navi 33 below it.If not AMD won't have any marketshare to care about!

Its depressing seeing AMD RTG committing seppuku like this. Nvidia has just left a massive wide open chance and they need to stop worrying about muh 2% extra margins(especially as console margins are lower but the revenue is helpful and helped them this quarter).
 
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Calin Banc said:
Well it IS the bugget alternative since is slower and cheaper...
Click to expand...

I am not sure if it is cheaper. I hope that was a typo in ROCm,because even £400 for a 16GB Navi 33 based dGPU is hilarious.

We can get RX6700XT/RX6750XT performance for the same price 3 years later. But don't worry that extra 4GB of VRAM will definitely help in another UE4 came which needs 12.1GB of VRAM to work properly with! But we have 10% less performance than Nvidia,30% less RT performance,more power consumption but 2X the VRAM for a few quid more.

So the only advantage is MOAR VRAM over Nvidia,until Nvidia doubles the VRAM(the predictable move) and AMD needs another price drop.


humbug said:
Navi 32 has 4096 Shaders according to this....

www.techpowerup.com

AMD Navi 32 GPU Specs

3840 Cores, 192 TMUs, 128 ROPs
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com
Click to expand...

No point if AMD has gotten into its head it wants to sell it only as an RX7800 series dGPU,because like Nvidia they are upselling another dGPU. So Navi 32 is pushed up from the RX6700XT series to the RX7800 series.

The RX6800XT has 15% more shaders:
www.techpowerup.com

AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT Specs

AMD Navi 21, 2250 MHz, 4608 Cores, 288 TMUs, 128 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2000 MHz, 256 bit
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com

So to match that dGPU,Navi 32 needs to be at 2.6GHZ for the boost clock But even at 3.2GHZ core clock,that would mean 20% to 25% faster than an RX6800XT assuming no bandwidth limitations.

So in one word:USELESS.

Basically RX6950XT level performance,for the current RX6950XT level price. Probably better RT.

At this rate,it would have been better if both companies didn't bother.

Nvidia,AMD and Intel deserve a few more billion in lost consumer revenue,to drive the point home.
 
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12.5% ^^^ read above you, i think it will be clock very much higher, we know RDNA3 can clock to over 3Ghz, i'm calling it 2.8Ghz.

That's 39% higher than the 6800XT. it will also have faster memory IC's.
 
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humbug said:
12.5% ^^^ read above you, i think it will be clock very much higher, we know RDNA3 can clock to over 3Ghz, i'm calling it 2.8Ghz.

That's 39% higher than the 6800XT. it will also have faster memory IC's.
Click to expand...

An why I said with the deficit in shaders,it will end up being 20% to 25% faster,ie,around RX6950XT level. But it will be priced at $600 at least. The RX6800XT was $650,so 20% to 25% faster with a $50 drop. So about 10% faster than an RTX4070 with 4GB more VRAM and a slightly higher street price.

The RTX4070 was 20% faster than the RTX3070TI for the same RRP with more VRAM.

What a time to be alive! :p
 
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CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
I am not sure if it is cheaper. I hope that was a typo in ROCm,because even £400 for a 16GB Navi 33 based dGPU is hilarious.

We can get RX6700XT/RX6750XT performance for the same price 3 years later. But don't worry that extra 4GB of VRAM will definitely help in another UE4 came which needs 12.1GB of VRAM to work properly with! But we have 10% less performance than Nvidia,30% less RT performance,more power consumption but 2X the VRAM for a few quid more.

So the only advantage is MOAR VRAM over Nvidia,until Nvidia doubles the VRAM(the predictable move) and AMD needs another price drop.




No point if AMD has gotten into its head it wants to sell it only as an RX7800 series dGPU,because like Nvidia they are upselling another dGPU. So Navi 32 is pushed up from the RX6700XT series to the RX7800 series.

The RX6800XT has 15% more shaders:
www.techpowerup.com

AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT Specs

AMD Navi 21, 2250 MHz, 4608 Cores, 288 TMUs, 128 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 2000 MHz, 256 bit
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com

So to match that dGPU,Navi 32 needs to be at 2.6GHZ for the boost clock But even at 3.2GHZ core clock,that would mean 20% to 25% faster than an RX6800XT assuming no bandwidth limitations.

So in one word:USELESS.

Basically RX6950XT level performance,for the current RX6950XT level price. Probably better RT.

At this rate,it would have been better if both companies didn't bother.

Nvidia,AMD and Intel deserve a few more billion in lost consumer revenue,to drive the point home.
Click to expand...

Well it was never going to be much better than that or they would cannibalise sales of the 79xx cards. They are not going to release something 25%+ faster than the 6800xt for close to £500 because then no one would buy the 7900xt, as the 7900xt is only about 35% faster than the 6800xt.

The only way we are getting anything decent is if prices for the entire range drop significantly.

The 4070ti/4080 and 7900xt/XTX being at the prices they are, kind of set the prices for everything further down too.
 
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Jono8 said:
Well it was never going to be much better than that or they would cannibalise sales of the 79xx cards.

The only we are getting anything decent is if prices for the entire range drop significantly.

The 4070ti/4080 and 7900xt/XTX being at the prices they are, kind of set the prices for everything further down too.
Click to expand...

It also means the entire sub £500 stack is junk.

That also means most people I know won't be buying a card this generation.

Maybe Nvidia and AMD can lose some more sales. Maybe AMD can aim for Intel level sales marketshare.
 
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Jono8 said:
Unfortunately yes, it likely will be. I dont think there will be many price/performance gains to be seen, if any.
Click to expand...

That means zero sales from anybody I know.

Navi 23 was already a cash grab. AMD essentially replaced the RX5700XT in price with it,and why reviews were so muted. Smaller 7NM dGPU,less VRAM chips,etc.

You could get an RX5700 8GB for £250 in 2019. Only with dGPU sales cratering they were forced to reduce pricing.

If they are trying to price an el-cheapo(and smaller 6NM) clone for £350+ they are being worse than Nvidia. That is RX6700 class dGPU money,with a 60% larger dGPU,192 bit memory bus,etc.

Nvidia at least went to the cost and effort of having to design a new dGPU on a totally different near cutting edge node.

AMD just used an economy 6NM node,which AFAIK is compatible with TSMC 7NM and the boards are the same. So a low rate effort priced a tier above.

But it will have MOAR VRAM. Then Nvidia will relaunch Ada Lovelace and AMD will have to end up dropping prices again.
 
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humbug said:
So you'll be buying a £1500 RTX 5080 then? a £1200 5070Ti?
Click to expand...
1) prices can go up only so far, they've already hit the sky
2) giving Ryzen platform shenanigans and 790xt/x launch, to me AMD has proved that will milk the market ASAP. I didn't pittt buy before their products and I'm not gonna do it now - just like you.

My bugget is around €400 for which now I'm getting about the same performance (or maybe worse) that I already have for around 4.5years.

In the meantime, RAM prices are around a quarter to a third of what they were when I've upgraded and nvme price almost half (from the top of my head).

@CAT-THE-FIFTH , I meant their recent products lately, notca specific product.

And I'll leave this here

 
Just see how AMD has also profiteered from all of this:
1.)2019 - Navi 10 on an expensive TSMC 7NM. 251MM2. Either 8GB(RX5700) or 6GB(RX5600XT) for £250~£300.

According to TPU,the RX5700 8GB was 57% faster than an RX590 at qHD and the RX5600XT was 45% faster at qHD.

2.)2021 - Navi 23 on an older TSMC 7NM.237MM2 and half the VRAM chips. RX6600 priced higher than the RX5600XT or RX5700.

RX6600 is slower than the RX5700,and is 10% faster than an RX5600XT with 2GB more VRAM. The RX6600XT is the same speed and RRP as the RX5700XT. Also you get RT.

3.)2023 - Navi 33 on an el-cheapo TSMC 6NM. 204MM2 and half the VRAM chips of Navi 10. GDDR6 costs much less than in 2019. Can't be bothered to even use GDDR6X.

Could be priced above £350 for an RX7700 16GB and overclocked to the edge to justify its price. So 20% more performance,and maybe 16GB of VRAM.
But the price has risen,and an RX6650XT can be had for as low as £225,and the RX6700XT as low as £330.

AMD has been essentially using the same node,and making the dGPUs smaller and smaller. Then using Infinity Cache to reduce the amount of GDDR6 chips they need.

So for the last few years,AMD has been slowly milking the mainstream market as Nvidia is releasing less and less decent offerings.

So I hope this rumour is not true. But it could be sadly.

If Nvidia had released the RTX4070 as an RTX4060TI,and the RTX4060TI as the RTX4060,then Navi 33 would have to be at best an RX7600 series dGPU.
 
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