Do you believe?

[FoxEye]

we have proof that life can and does exist in the universe though - we are the proof.
We have only belief for a god.

We are not proof that life exists anywhere else, tho. We are simply proof that life exists right here!

If you can say "life on Earth proves aliens exist", then why can't you say "life on Earth proves God"? Both demonstrate the same kind of belief without direct observation (of the thing being believed).

 

[adolf hamster]

We are not proof that life exists anywhere else, tho. We are simply proof that life exists right here!

If you can say "life on Earth proves aliens exist", then why can't you say "life on Earth proves God"? Both demonstrate the same kind of belief without direct observation (of the thing being believed).

you're missing the bit in the middle, it's not "life on earth proves aliens exist" it's "life on earth and empircal evidence of the scale of the universe leads us to calculating life elsewhere is statistically almost certain, it might not but odds are it does"

 

[mrk]

There won't be a big crunch, the universe (well, our universe if you follow the multiverse principle) just simply continues to expand at an accelerated rate depending on what objects are being observed from our point of reference. What is our universe expanding into? Million dollar question if ever there was one. unlikely we will ever know the answer to this as human beings. The machines we send out to find those answers will likely know though in millions/billions of years to come.

What complety does my head in is this, does the universe end? if so whats at the end, all things usally come to an end so why not the universe. The more i think about it just totaly does my head in.

Great thread its all kinda of magical in its own kinda way

The Universe might have an "end" in the standard sense, but we will never ever be able to see or get to it. There's a very simple reason for it, the rate of expansion the farther away galaxies get from us accelerates as time goes on relative to us. There comes a point where their distance is so great that they reach and exceed the speed of light as they move away from us. Of course the point at which the light they emit, the same light that eventually reaches us millions/billions of years later, carries on coasting through space at the speed of light, but as the universe expands, the physical galaxies themselves spread apart at their respective rates.

We just won't be able to observe those galaxies any more because the light stops reaching us since the point of reference that began has finished and the new point of reference would otherwise be from the galaxy drifting away beyond the speed of light.

It's quite confusing, but Ask an Astronomer explains it really nicely, well worth the read! But the main bit is here:

Currently, we are certain that we live in a universe that is expanding at an increasing rate. As you read this, the universe expands at about 70 kilometers per second per megaparsec. This means that a galaxy 1 megaparsec away from us is receding at about 70 km/s, another galaxy 2 megaparsecs away from us is receding at 140 km/s, and so on. This is Hubble's law. Following the same logic, one could do the math to compute how far a galaxy has to be in order to move away at the speed of light. It turns out, galaxies 4300 megaparsecs away from us recede faster than light. This distance defines the "Hubble sphere", an imaginary sphere centered at us, outside which everything recedes faster than the speed of light. Note that, since the universe expands at an accelerated rate, the Hubble sphere increases its radius as time goes by.

Source: http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/97...peed-of-light-disappear-from-our-observations

 

[hornetstinger]

We are not proof that life exists anywhere else, tho. We are simply proof that life exists right here!

If you can say "life on Earth proves aliens exist", then why can't you say "life on Earth proves God"? Both demonstrate the same kind of belief without direct observation (of the thing being believed).

It happened once, so it's highly probable it has happened, or will happen again. That is not belief.

If I win the lottery, it is probable if you play long enough you would win too.

Your god analogy is not the same at all, as god is fiction not based on chance. Ie, because Thor exists (he doesn't) then that means Jehovah does as well (he doesn't)

 

[Rroff]

What is our universe expanding into?

Ostensibly nothing - nothing takes up no space it has no properties.

 

[Malevolence]

Of course there's life elsewhere other than on Earth, it would be arrogant as hell to assume otherwise given the sheer unimaginable scale of the universe.

I remember a great conversation between two prominent scientists once... might have been Bill Nye and Mr Tyson but don't quote me on that...

Only on American TV is Bill Nye considered to be a prominent scientist, he's a TV presenter with an Engineering degree.

 

[FoxEye]

It happened once, so it's highly probable it has happened, or will happen again. That is not belief.

If I win the lottery, it is probable if you play long enough you would win too.

Your god analogy is not the same at all, as god is fiction not based on chance. Ie, because Thor exists (he doesn't) then that means Jehovah does as well (he doesn't)

Well, given that mankind hasn't explored even a tiny fraction of 1% of our universe, making declarations about God not existing seems a bit premature.

The smartest people realise just how little we know compared to how much knowledge remains unearthed.

I think the people who declare "God doesn't exist - fact" are those who most want to *believe* that God doesn't exist. Why I'm not sure.

You talk about not dismissing very small probabilities - such as winning the lottery twice - but then claim that the probability of God existing is zero, not even "very small". Based on that fraction of 1% that we think we know.

I can understand those who say they won't believe in something without proof. Completely understand that viewpoint. But to say that something "cannot exist", I think demonstrates the mistaken belief that we can never discover something which drastically changes our worldview in future.

Given how often we make rather momentous new discoveries, I would say such assertions are misguided.

 

[hornetstinger]

Well, given that mankind hasn't explored even a tiny fraction of 1% of our universe, making declarations about God not existing seems a bit premature.

The smartest people realise just how little we know compared to how much knowledge remains unearthed.

I think the people who declare "God doesn't exist - fact" are those who most want to *believe* that God doesn't exist. Why I'm not sure.

You talk about not dismissing very small probabilities - such as winning the lottery twice - but then claim that the probability of God existing is zero, not even "very small". Based on that fraction of 1% that we think we know.

I can understand those who say they won't believe in something without proof. Completely understand that viewpoint. But to say that something "cannot exist", I think demonstrates the mistaken belief that we can never discover something which drastically changes our worldview in future.

Given how often we make rather momentous new discoveries, I would say such assertions are misguided.

Then by your logic, all gods and godesses exist. And not just your single God you just happen to believe in.

Also Gods and other power entities of other alien civilisations must exist then.

 

[Sliver]

Only on American TV is Bill Nye considered to be a prominent scientist, he's a TV presenter with an Engineering degree.

True but he is also well versed in science. He's a very knowledgeable guy and a great educator. I'd take his word over most other peoples on science matters. Qualifications do not make the man. I don't have a degree but I find I know more than most on certain topics simply because I read a lot. Bill Nye clearly reads a lot. His documentaries are both popular and entertaining and educational. He's a good man.

 

[Angilion]

and how do they come to that conclusion? it's no different from saying gaining the ability to chart/sail our way across oceans centuries ago would be the same, and yet that's exactly what we did. they could see we have some priceless resource, like liquid water or whatever, and since we're just savages compared to them they have the right to acquire it.

There are significant differences, though.

The technology required to cross interstellar space in a practical way would probably rule out Earth having any resources that couldn't be acquired at least as easily elsewhere. Want lots of liquid water? Capture comets and melt them. Or mine it from a frozen planet or moon and melt that. Or maybe just make it. Maybe they'd have a high enough level of technology to convert efficiently between matter and energy. Tea, Earl Grey, hot.

The only resource that's common on Earth and not elsewhere in the universe is humans. Slavery? What for? What use would we be to them as slaves? The only possible use I can think of is as a status symbol. Their level of technology would have made practical slavery obsolete for them long ago.

The guts of my argument is that the technology gap between us and them would be far larger than the technology gap between conquering human societies and conquered human societies in the past and that the difference in the size of the gap makes the two situations fundamentally dissimilar.

 

[Angilion]

communication is interesting - who would choose who is to speak for us, as a race?

Hopefully the hypothetical alien people won't think that 1 person can speak for 8 billion people. Because they can't unless there is some sort of group mind.

Morgan Freeman. He's got a lovely voice and he wouldn't flap and he seems to think before he speaks. He'd do.

 

[Mr Badger]

Well, given that mankind hasn't explored even a tiny fraction of 1% of our universe, making declarations about God not existing seems a bit premature.

Ah yes, the Star Trek V approach to finding god. Maybe you should look down the back of your sofa in case that falls into the 99% of the universe that people haven't checked for god?

 

[Mr Badger]

Hopefully the hypothetical alien people won't think that 1 person can speak for 8 billion people. Because they can't unless there is some sort of group mind.

Morgan Freeman. He's got a lovely voice and he wouldn't flap and he seems to think before he speaks. He'd do.

TRUMP

 

[wolfie138]

Hopefully the hypothetical alien people won't think that 1 person can speak for 8 billion people. Because they can't unless there is some sort of group mind.

Morgan Freeman. He's got a lovely voice and he wouldn't flap and he seems to think before he speaks. He'd do.

the aliens might not think that, but humans would. no doubt there'd be an immediate scramble [a] for the prestige to go down in the history books etc, and [bees] so they could cosy up to the aliens and maybe get the edge at being the first to get new technology etc etc. And of course there'd be all the in-squabbling because Country A doesn't like Country B and doesn't want them to be a part of it; nobody wants North Korea to be a part of it cos the leader's a jerk and might colour perceptions; no one wants Trump to talk to them for the same reasons....etc etc etc.

My vote would be Henry Rollins.

 

[h4rm0ny]

TRUMP

"You know, what it is... Look at Mars. Mars is, and scientists agree on this, not a great planet. What can you say about it? It's red, that's it. But you know, Earth. Earth has a lot going for it. If Earth weren't my planet, I'd invade her. So to the aliens, I will say. "We're going to build a wall around the Earth. And the aliens are going to pay for it. And maybe, you know, we'll stick some solar panels on it so the wall will actually make money. Oh, and Xenu. I've met Xenu. I have a good relationship with Xenu. He's a great guy."

 

[Orionaut]

IMO, Life in the Universe is going to be like life on Earth.

The earth is, Hmmn, 4,500,000,000 years old.

"Life" has been present for, Hmmn, 4,300,000,000 of those years

Life visible to the naked human eye has been present for about 500,000,000 of those years.

"Intelligent" life has been around for (Being generous) 3,000,000 of those years...

"Civilisation" for about 10,000

"Space-faring" 60!

The rest of the Universe/Galaxy will be much the same...

Life is common, "Star Trek" Aliens, very very rare! :/

 

[DrToffnar]

Of course there's life elsewhere other than on Earth, it would be arrogant as hell to assume otherwise given the sheer unimaginable scale of the universe.



Only on American TV is Bill Nye considered to be a prominent scientist, he's a TV presenter with an Engineering degree.

I didn't say 'deserving' or 'acclaimed', I said 'prominent'.

I guarantee you that most know more about Bill Nye then people like Louis Pasteur or Marie Curie.

 

[Mr Badger]

"You know, what it is... Look at Mars. Mars is, and scientists agree on this, not a great planet. What can you say about it? It's red, that's it. But you know, Earth. Earth has a lot going for it. If Earth weren't my planet, I'd invade her. So to the aliens, I will say. "We're going to build a wall around the Earth. And the aliens are going to pay for it. And maybe, you know, we'll stick some solar panels on it so the wall will actually make money. Oh, and Xenu. I've met Xenu. I have a good relationship with Xenu. He's a great guy."

That emergency speech is top secret - how did you get hold of it? Are you a Russian hacker?

 

[d_brennen]

That emergency speech is top secret - how did you get hold of it? Are you a Russian hacker?

Some baboon posted it on Twitter in the middle of the night

 

[MikeTheNative]

Of course there's life elsewhere other than on Earth, it would be arrogant as hell to assume otherwise given the sheer unimaginable scale of the universe.



Only on American TV is Bill Nye considered to be a prominent scientist, he's a TV presenter with an Engineering degree.

The UK has the best with Brain Cox, top scientist and very good presenter who is very comfortable in front of the camera.