Doctor Who

Soldato
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One thing that struck me as odd is the interview he did explaining his new sonic screwdriver. He said it has a Rwandan proverb written in Galefreyan on it. I mean, why? We know Ncuti was born there but the Dr. sure wasnt. It's weird and in your face and i dunno.. I don't know why that's required. It's not like any other doctor had 'many hands make light work' written down the shaft of their sonics lol. This is the sort of thing that has me just check out. It's not having characters of different genders or sexual orientation - none of that is ever a problem, it's the weird unnecessary references and snipes at the doctor 'It's a shame you're not a female any more, she'd understand'. If that was flipped, the bbc would be inundated with complains and rightly so. [Rose] "something a male-presenting Time Lord will never understand" <---- See, there's something off about the Doc, who just spent hundreds (if not thousands) of years as a woman, being told that by a 15 year old transgender girl [That's how old Rose is supposed to be during 'The Star Beast'. The audacity to suggest that child knows more than the Doc ever would :rolleyes:


This is the sort of crap that ruins entire franchises.
 
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Soldato
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There is no one single definition for it, which was my original point. Woke means whatever you want it to mean, nobody can agree = it is pointless.

My Mum is very Tory, she didn't think the trans character was woke - but the Daily Mail does.
Lol what does being tory have to do with it?
 
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I personally don't find having a trans character remotely annoys me, is your point that we shouldn't have trans characters? Or that they shouldn't be on TV? If not, why not? The actor is a good actor, perhaps they were chosen for that?

This just proves my point - its not the character or the actor its the preachy wokery they were shoe horned in on - they were literally trivialised into a plot maguffin after ticking off all the cliched trans tropes. Do you not think the BBC could have done better? How about a character that just happens to be trans rather than that being the sole reason for their existence?

For the record though, they were not a good actor lol..
 
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Associate
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One thing that struck me as odd is the interview he did explaining his new sonic screwdriver. He said it has a Rwandan proverb written in Galefreyan on it. I mean, why? We know Ncuti was born there but the Dr. sure wasnt. It's weird and in your face and i dunno.. I don't know why that's required. It's not like any other doctor had 'many hands make light work' written down the shaft of their sonics lol. This is the sort of thing that has me just check out. It's not having characters of different genders or sexual orientation - none of that is ever a problem, it's the weird unnecessary references and snipes at the doctor 'It's a shame you're not a female any more, she'd understand'. If that was flipped, the bbc would be inundated with complains and rightly so. [Rose] "something a male-presenting Time Lord will never understand" <---- See, there's something off about the Doc, who just spent hundreds (if not thousands) of years as a woman, being told that by a 15 year old transgender girl [That's how old Rose is supposed to be during 'The Star Beast'. The audacity to suggest that child knows more than the Doc ever would :rolleyes:


This is the sort of crap that ruins entire franchises.


BBC gaslighting.
 
Soldato
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One thing that struck me as odd is the interview he did explaining his new sonic screwdriver. He said it has a Rwandan proverb written in Galefreyan on it. I mean, why? We know Ncuti was born there but the Dr. sure wasnt. It's weird and in your face and i dunno.. I don't know why that's required. It's not like any other doctor had 'many hands make light work' written down the shaft of their sonics lol. This is the sort of thing that has me just check out. It's not having characters of different genders or sexual orientation - none of that is ever a problem, it's the weird unnecessary references and snipes at the doctor 'It's a shame you're not a female any more, she'd understand'. If that was flipped, the bbc would be inundated with complains and rightly so. [Rose] "something a male-presenting Time Lord will never understand" <---- See, there's something off about the Doc, who just spent hundreds (if not thousands) of years as a woman, being told that by a 15 year old transgender girl [That's how old Rose is supposed to be during 'The Star Beast'. The audacity to suggest that child knows more than the Doc ever would :rolleyes:


This is the sort of crap that ruins entire franchises.
It's just a little bit of personalisation to the prop. To most people looking It's just Gallifreyan text. It will likely not be seen on screen in much detail. Just a nice added touch for the actor to have something there. Probably isn't the first time.

But if something that insignificant puts you off a show then that's noones ussue but yours.

The BBC still got complaints about the episode, 141 of them I think. Mostly from people saying it was out of order and disgraceful that they included a trans actress or trans character in the show.
 
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But if something that insignificant puts you off a show then that's noones ussue but yours.
Typical Steve5424. You're not going to gaslight me for pointing out that nonsense, steve. I said it was odd and not required - I didnt say i was offended by it.

The BBC still got complaints about the episode, 141 of them I think. Mostly from people saying it was out of order and disgraceful that they included a trans actress or trans character in the show.

It was alittle more than that though, wasnt it?
 
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Mobster
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This just proves my point - its not the character or the actor its the preachy wokery they were shoe horned in on - they were literally trivialised into a plot maguffin after ticking off all the cliched trans tropes. Do you not think the BBC could have done better? How about a character that just happens to be trans rather than that being the sole reason for their existence?

For the record though, they were not a good actor lol..

You'd have a go at that too.

Go back and read the comments when the actor for Martha Jones was cast.
 
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That is certainly not gaslighting by any means.

No that's what the complaints were about.
You're trying to imply i'm wrong for taking issue with it. If you dont think that's gaslighting, go grab a dictionary and learn something.


You'd have a go at that too.

Go back and read the comments when the actor for Martha Jones was cast.

Good few years ago, now. What was said about her? I remember i couple of people taking issue with Freema after she was cast, but i dont remember it being because of anything other than her ability to act. Most people put her above Tate.
 
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Soldato
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You're trying to imply i'm wrong for taking issue with it. If you dont think that's gaslighting, go grab a dictionary and learn something.

No I don't need to but for your clarification
Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which the abuser attempts to sow self-doubt and confusion in their victim's mind. Typically, gaslighters are seeking to gain power and control over the other person, by distorting reality and forcing them to question their own judgment and intuition.
I certainly am not doing any of that.
 
Mobster
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You're trying to imply i'm wrong for taking issue with it. If you dont think that's gaslighting, go grab a dictionary and learn something.




Good few years ago, now. What was said about her? I remember i couple of people taking issue with Freema after she was cast, but i dont remember it being because of anything other than her ability to act. Most people put her above Tate.

There were calls of it being politically correct to cast a black actor.
 
Mobster
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Can somebody just summarise their issues with the "wokeness" as you call it? What did you find so annoying about it? I genuinely don't give a toss, I thought the episodes were average for RTF but that had nothing to do with that.

They had a camp dance number just like they had in one of his episodes in 2008/2009, seemed like a load of episodes that could have been made then tbh
 
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Can somebody just summarise their issues with the "wokeness" as you call it? What did you find so annoying about it? I genuinely don't give a toss, I thought the episodes were average for RTF but that had nothing to do with that.

They had a camp dance number just like they had in one of his episodes in 2008/2009, seemed like a load of episodes that could have been made then tbh
Not seen ep 2 and 3 but ep 1 was peak wokery and was covered in detail earlier in this thread.
 
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One thing that struck me as odd is the interview he did explaining his new sonic screwdriver. He said it has a Rwandan proverb written in Galefreyan on it. I mean, why? We know Ncuti was born there but the Dr. sure wasnt. It's weird and in your face and i dunno.. I don't know why that's required. It's not like any other doctor had 'many hands make light work' written down the shaft of their sonics lol. This is the sort of thing that has me just check out. It's not having characters of different genders or sexual orientation - none of that is ever a problem, it's the weird unnecessary references and snipes at the doctor 'It's a shame you're not a female any more, she'd understand'. If that was flipped, the bbc would be inundated with complains and rightly so. [Rose] "something a male-presenting Time Lord will never understand" <---- See, there's something off about the Doc, who just spent hundreds (if not thousands) of years as a woman, being told that by a 15 year old transgender girl [That's how old Rose is supposed to be during 'The Star Beast'. The audacity to suggest that child knows more than the Doc ever would :rolleyes:


This is the sort of crap that ruins entire franchises.
It's a tradition in film, TV and theatre for props and has been something done in film and TV basically since the first moving pictures to personalise/have fun with props.
Probably a holdover to some extent from the days that people often supplied their own props/clothes from their own collection, and there are very well documented examples of it in Sci-fi going back to the early Star Trek, and TNG.

Basically it's something that a prop maker will do because no one usually notices but adds some fun and thought into it, it also when you're dealing with a made up sci fi language helps you retain an internal consistency as you can either make a random load of squiggles, or you can use quote or proverb etc that is relevant in some way, such as it references the person who has made the prop or is going to use it.
IIRC a lot of the previous Doctors have had props personalised to their past work/background, and from memory every reincarnation of the Doctor (at least since it came back) has had their own version of the screwdriver.

Also the Doctor is explicitly said to know what was it, millions of languages in the previous episode, given how much time he's spent on earth and specifically without the Tardis on earth in the past it's not beyond any further suspension of disbelief that he knows not only English, but multiple other Earth languages and might at some point have liked a phrase enough to use it for a while.

It's certainly better than having random squiggles or "davros is a poopy head" sort of thing as is often the case in made up sci fi languages.
I actually take this sort of attention to detail as reassuring, it indicates that people making Doctor Who are trying to sort out at least some aspects of consistency, which for background detail like languages that are used repeatedly is a very good thing, as it means you're less likely to see a random set of squiggles in one episode and it mean "danger" and again in another episode when a sign gets reused but this time it's taken to mean "Eat at Joes".

And if you think having a Rwandan proverb in a made up language is bad on a prop that you can't even make out clearly, then boy have I got some bad news for you about Star Trek, where it's been a very long running joke for pretty much every display screen, nameplate, small tag on a bucket to have a joke text, often intended to try and make the cast/crew laugh and referencing everything from how wordy a treaty is, to the names of cast/crew, their previous work, or random pop culture references, and all in plain english (IIRC there is/was a site that specifically tracked the references in TNG that were visible when they rereleased it in HD). One of my favourites is how Cetacean Ops, a joke reference to an 80's anime* which in itself was a reference to a David Brin book, went from a call on a the PA system in an episode of star trek and then mentioned in one of the tech manuals, to actually being depicted on screen at least once (lower decks had Boimler visit it from memory).


*The rather good Gunbuster where Dolphins and Whales given artificial voices and implants were used as deep space navigators.
 
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Man of Honour
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The worst thing about all of this probably isnt even the content/choices of the show, its more that it results in pages and pages and posts and posts of people bickering over whether something is woke or isnt woke and whether a poster is right or wrong for their personal beliefs.....rather than what actually happened in the show.
 
Soldato
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problem is it's not how people behave in real life - these easter eggs dropped into dialogue stand out&distract - making it into a satire for a UK viewer, but, maybe it's normalised in the netflix world.
 
Soldato
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My only problem is things being shoe horned in.

Have a trans person in the the show, fine no one cares, but don't turn an entire episode into a trans allegory. Just have the actor and don't mention she's trans in the story every 5min. They destroyed the Doctor Donna situation for the sole purpose of making remarks against 14 because a male presenting time lord can never understand because he isn't a woman and to mention over and over she's trans and beautiful. Just shut up and tell a decent story for once.

Bill potts mentioning she was gay almost every episode was stupid also, there is no need for it, just tell a good story. Have the characters, have disabled people etc, don't make it their entire personality and that they are so perfect/brave.

There was absolutely no need to make the 1st episode as bad as it was with the messaging. Have the actor, she wasn't very good but whatever, and make a story without brining it up all the time because we need to be reminded. Thought the entire point was normalising it, not making them special.

2nd episode was fine, race swapping an iconic historical figure was stupid but whatever. Bringing up the timeless children that is NOT cannon no matter what the writers say was stupid. Was a fever dream for all I care for her seasons.

Last episode was mostly fine apart from 14 turning into a whining bitch and the bi regeneration which just opens so many plot holes. Will reserve judgement on Ncuti for now but he seems very stereotypically over the top.

Just tell good stories with any actors you like, doesn't matter who they are as long as they can act and it's a good story. Don't bring their private parts into the story.

Anyone who against trans actors in media are stupid. But just give them roles and don't make the characters personally the fact they are trans. They are people just like anyone else.
 
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