Does anyone on this forum consider themself as being " woke "

[dowie]

re: "white privilege" this notion that white people have special privileges purely because they're white - it could probably be better referred to as "majority advantage" - if we assume that white people are biased towards people of their "race" then being in a majority they'd be privileged right?

The thing is there would seem to be an implicit assumption there that all "races" are biased to the same extent... so if most of society is white and all racial groups have some bias/in-group preference then white people will have some general advantage re: racial bias... on average.

The problem is what if biases among racial groups aren't all distributed in a similar way, what if some groups have higher in group preferences/biases than others... well in that case you can't necessarily assume that just being in a majority gives you advantages on average you might be in a minority that doesn't suffer significant biases from the majority and benefits from strong in-group preferences from others within your minority.

This is quite interesting - recent data from the US:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1375085314398633985

Right...but the people running the scheme didn't want to exclude higher-income people.

Well they did and they have but they've also excluded people based on race in addition to that... the point was that the reasoning for the latter was flawed as it was already covered by their exclusion of higher-income people in the first place.

 

[Luckystrike123]

Its ages ago now but at a New Years Eve party I spoke to someone who described themselves as woke. I thought to myself, "no way am I going near that topic!".

I think that generally wokeness comes from a place of caring about others - which is a good thing - but that this mindset can easily go too far and lead deep into authoritarian left politics which I am not a fan of whatsoever.

I think that most woke people a very unhappy. They are programmed to look for conflict and injustice constantly. Just look at the guardian. Every article is either about people who have it (unfairly) better or (unjustly) worse, how can you have any life satisfaction when you view the world through this lense?

 

[Tony Edwards]

Its ages ago now but at a New Years Eve party I spoke to someone who described themselves as woke. I thought to myself, "no way am I going near that topic!".

I think that generally wokeness comes from a place of caring about others - which is a good thing - but that this mindset can easily go too far and lead deep into authoritarian left politics which I am not a fan of whatsoever.

I think that most woke people a very unhappy. They are programmed to look for conflict and injustice constantly. Just look at the guardian. Every article is either about people who have it (unfairly) better or (unjustly) worse, how can you have any life satisfaction when you view the world through this lense?

This has to be one of the silliest and misguided posts so far (apart from the people I have on ignore of couse).

How can you say that woke people must be really unhappy when they are usualy up against the other side that seem extrememly angry and unhappy. Its not so much about caring about others as not not caring and treating genuine concerns as a joke. Which is what the other side (anti woke) do.

As soon as a, what right wingers decide is a 'woke' subject comes up it is instantly jumped on by the 'anti woke' lot who are like rabid dogs.

There also seems a disconect between the anti woke lot and rationality. Lets take the recent national trust incident were they started to explain their history and the anti wokers went nuts. They constantly lose their **** over history being revealed.

I can appreciate that 'woke' subjects might make some cringe, but how can anyone stand up for climate change, racism or misogyny or stand against those that try to speak out about those subjects and expect to be taken seriously by a decent society?

ANTI WOKE. Take that in for a minute. Those are the types that history has shown were on the wrong side of decently. Caring isnt an issue, not caring is

These were the kinds of people that would have said women dont need a vote. Things are fine as they are. The same people that constantly tell us about the blacks that were selling slaves to white slave traders without seeing that its the action of slavery that is wrong, it doesnt matter the colour.

Anti woke

A key difference between a psychopath and a sociopath is whether he has a conscience, the little voice inside that lets us know when we’re doing something wrong, says L. Michael Tompkins, EdD. He's a psychologist at the Sacramento County Mental Health Treatment Center.

A psychopath doesn’t have a conscience. If he lies to you so he can steal your money, he won’t feel any moral qualms, though he may pretend to. He may observe others and then act the way they do so he’s not “found out,” Tompkins says.

A sociopath typically has a conscience, but it’s weak. They may know that taking your money is wrong, and they might feel some guilt or remorse, but that won’t stop their behavior.

Both lack empathy, the ability to stand in someone else’s shoes and understand how they feel. But a psychopath has less regard for others, says Aaron Kipnis, PhD, author of The Midas Complex. Someone with this personality type sees others as objects he can use for his own benefit.

Recent research suggests a psychopath’s brain is not like other people’s. It may have physical differences that make it hard for the person to identify with someone else’s distress.

The differences can even change basic body functions. For example, when most people see blood or violence in a movie, their hearts beat faster, their breathing quickens, and their palms get sweaty.

A psychopath has the opposite reaction. He gets calmer. Kipnis says that quality helps psychopaths be fearless and engage in risky behavior.

“They don’t fear the consequences of their actions,” he says.

 

[Nitefly]

From the past couple of posts alone I think describing things as ‘woke’ / ‘anti-woke’ is ultimately just unhelpful as it sort of reinforces this idea of there being two sides, when I think most people are actually in broad agreement over the principles with only people on the fringes steering the ship for both groups.

 

[mmj_uk]

I can appreciate that 'woke' subjects might make some cringe, but how can anyone stand up for climate change, racism or misogyny or stand against those that try to speak out about those subjects and expect to be taken seriously by a decent society?

The difference is conservatives are more about individual responsibility, teach everyone to be responsible for protecting the environment and being kind to others and let them take personal responsibility for it. The 'woke' answer to the same problem tends to be authoritarianism, more government and corporate power (regulation) essentially dictating how people should behave with threats of being cancelled or visited by the police. I mean you've even got legislation being talked about in Scotland aimed at controlling how people should behave in their own private homes. If the woke get their way people will eventually have hardly any autonomy at all, we might as well just be programmed robots following a script provided a centralised system of government.

If we're getting into psychology a trait of narcissistic personality disorder is wanting to control other people and getting angry with them when they don't behave how you want them to. Narcissists also see themselves as superior to other people which probably explains why non-woke people are so often portrayed by the woke as uncaring bigoted Nazi's.

 

[Tony Edwards]

The difference is conservatives are more about individual responsibility, teach everyone to be responsible for protecting the environment and being kind to others and let them take personal responsibility for it.

But if they dont thats fine too is it?

If we're getting into psychology a trait of narcissistic personality disorder is wanting to control other people and getting angry with them when they don't behave how you want them to. Narcissists also see themselves as superior to other people which probably explains why non-woke people are so often portrayed by the woke as uncaring bigoted Nazi's.

Yes uncaring about others. Thats narcisism.

 

[FoxEye]

Yes uncaring about others. Thats narcisism.

Woke people don't care about others.

They advocate for select groups who they value, whilst seeking to marginalise, de-platform and otherwise disadvantage other groups, like all white men

I'm not sure if they truly care about anyone or if it's a game/power play/power grab.

Even if they do care they certainly don't care about everyone. You'll need to be in one of the identity groups for which they advocate. Let's not forget classic woke phrases like, "white men should just die", or "be less white" or some other **** woke types can often be found spewing regularly.

 

[Nasher]

Woke people just want facebook likes.

 

[Mint8]

I saw a post on another forum recently where someone was basically complaining about people using the terms "woke" and "*********" to describe people like himself - however he then referred to these people as "gammons" - oh the irony.

He then didnt understand the replies he got pointing out his hypocrisy and the fact he had used a term that argueably had a racist undertone to it - and there in lies the big problem with the "woke" movement - they can not accept any form of discussion on their pet subjects and feel they have enough moral high ground that they can use whatever insult they like in response. There can be no debate - you are either 100% in agreement with them or you are automatically seen as being racist/homophobic/whatever.

The recently dismantled DS General/Politics forum actually had as one of its rules that they had a zero tolerance policy on anyone entering a thread concerning these topics who seeks to "downplay" or "dismiss" them in any way. In practice this was used to ban anyone not agreeing in full with the echo chamber. As a result, the Politics thread was full of extreme left wing posters - all shouting "gammon" at anyone who dared to post an alternative view.

 

[Angilion]

This has to be one of the silliest and misguided posts so far (apart from the people I have on ignore of couse). [..]

By the definitions you quoted in your post, I'd say that many or all "woke" people are psychopaths who want an excuse to indulge their wish to harm others without suffering adverse effects from society and to adopt a cause in order to have a cover, to fit in. To observe others and act as they do in order to not be "found out". The profoundly authoritarian system that "woke" people strive so passionately for would also be a delight for dangerous psychopaths as it would give them the freedom to do whatever they wanted to anyone who was deemed to be of an inferior biological group identity and/or an enemy of any authority figure. There are examples of that happening in other authoritarian ideologies, ones that succeeded in gaining almost absolute power at least for a while.

 

[platinum87]

A key difference between a psychopath and a sociopath is whether he has a conscience, the little voice inside that lets us know when we’re doing something wrong, says L. Michael Tompkins, EdD. He's a psychologist at the Sacramento County Mental Health Treatment Center.

A psychopath doesn’t have a conscience. If he lies to you so he can steal your money, he won’t feel any moral qualms, though he may pretend to. He may observe others and then act the way they do so he’s not “found out,” Tompkins says.

A sociopath typically has a conscience, but it’s weak. They may know that taking your money is wrong, and they might feel some guilt or remorse, but that won’t stop their behavior.

Both lack empathy, the ability to stand in someone else’s shoes and understand how they feel. But a psychopath has less regard for others, says Aaron Kipnis, PhD, author of The Midas Complex. Someone with this personality type sees others as objects he can use for his own benefit.

Recent research suggests a psychopath’s brain is not like other people’s. It may have physical differences that make it hard for the person to identify with someone else’s distress.

The differences can even change basic body functions. For example, when most people see blood or violence in a movie, their hearts beat faster, their breathing quickens, and their palms get sweaty.

A psychopath has the opposite reaction. He gets calmer. Kipnis says that quality helps psychopaths be fearless and engage in risky behavior.

“They don’t fear the consequences of their actions,” he says.

A sociopath or psychopath does have empathy, the ability to understand or detect emotion in others.

If you did not , you would not be able to "pretend". In most cases psychopaths and sociopaths have higher empathy and emotional intelligence than others.

You will never find any psychopaths to do a study on. You can find autistic people only.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

Woke people just want facebook likes.

Ooh I'm woke then.
I just put an old school picture from 1974 and I liked the likes.

 

[Reality|Bites]

I like that you liked the likes you got.

 

[platinum87]

I can appreciate that 'woke' subjects might make some cringe, but how can anyone stand up for climate change, racism or misogyny or stand against those that try to speak out about those subjects and expect to be taken seriously by a decent society?

Because the problem with climate change is that there are too many people in the world.

Being more efficient per person is not relevant or a goal you should attempt to achieve without also controlling population.

It does not matter that a vegan diet is half as polluting as a normal diet, all that means is we will get more people, and eventually be back to square one.

If people are racist, or misogynist there is nothing to be done about it, crying about it is useless.

The only thing you can do is change the law, and the law is already shifted well into the favor of groups that are mentioned.

 

[Reality|Bites]

The problem with Racism is it's being tackled with the idea it's only the white people who are causing the Racism. Of course White people can be racist but so can everyone else.
I was watching South park - Here come the neighbourhood last night.. series 5-12
It struck a cord with what's going on today

 

[Angilion]

[..] I can appreciate that 'woke' subjects might make some cringe, but how can anyone stand up for climate change, racism or misogyny or stand against those that try to speak out about those subjects and expect to be taken seriously by a decent society? [..]

By not rejecting the idea of "a person" and replacing it with a belief in biological group identity. Which is just the belief that "they're all the same", the very essence of extreme irrational prejudice. Adding the word 'identity' to the end of that phrase doesn't change the meaning in any way because it was always implied. People using the older version of the phrase didn't mean that the group they were targetting were identical, absolutely perfect copies of each other in every way. They meant that they treated their target group as a single identity, defined by the stereotypes they attached to the group. Which is exactly what "woke" people do because it's the same ideology.

By not displaying and demanding prejudice and discrimination based on the above. Racism, sexism, etc, etc. "Woke" demands all the 'isms'.

By not being blatant hypocrites.

By not presenting a false image of history and claiming it's The Whole and Only Truth.

By not blaming their victims.

By not seeking an authoritarian state.

By not corrupting and destroying the ideas of equality, diversity, tolerance, freedom and liberalism. The relationship of "woke" to those things is the relationship of a virus to a host - usurping the host's own cells to corrupt them into a factory to produce more the virus while using them as a shield from the host's immune system.

By not being crappy people, basically.

But "woke" people can expect to be taken seriously. Any authoritarian bigots with power should be taken seriously. History's full of examples of where that leads.

I have slightly less contempt for the honest "woke" people who are openly calling for racist genocide, sexist genocide, etc. At least they're honest.

 

[Reality|Bites]

Awkward in the aldi last night before closing time (maybe 8:30) I went to the checkout with 18 cans of red thunder (cheap redbull) and a litre of vodka....and a cucumber as i've got the rest of the salad stuff in the fridge already...I wonder what she thought?

 

[Narj]

By not being crappy people, basically.

I don't know how some people maintain their constant high levels of moral outrage. I'd find it mentally exhausting - life is too short so I stick to "don't be a ****".

Pretty much all the crappy old attitudes are going to disappear naturally over generations, it's not something that you can wave a wand at and magically fix.

Saying that, I'm definitely concerned for my nephews and nieces and the nonsense they may have to put up with in the future if these divisive attitudes continue to gain traction.

 

[Twinz]

....

 

[LabR@t]

Woke is joke.

Just not everyone gets it yet