Does something need to be done about dogs?

200sols said:
No it isn't.
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The thing is, for animals to behave in a domesticated way, they need to be treated in domesticated way. If you take a dog from birth and treat it like a fuzzy child without accounting for its animalistic roots then it won't behave the way it's expected to as a "domesticated animal", it'll behave like a pack animal and start challenging its way up the order meaning it'll attack anything it sees as a threat to its position in the pack, namely the actual children that it thinks it's in the same pecking order as.

If you've got a dog that thinks it's ok to attack children then it is behaving as a "wild animal" would, not the way a domesticated trained animal should. It's a perfectly valid comparison.
 
platinum87 said:
You cannot ignore genetics, being responsible is not enough, the breed must be domesticated.
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Yeah I mean in the context of discussion, we're talking about domesticated dogs not wolves or foxes. I also said that being a responsible owner is likely, not guaranteed to produce a decently behaved dog.
 
200sols said:
No it isn't.
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It is.

It only follows the rules that the pack leader puts down.

The problem is some owners don't know how to control their dogs. I've had 2 working dogs.

A dog respects the hierarchy. If you don't show a dominant position then it won't fully respect you. This includes that the dog should know if it attacks someone seen as lower down the hierarchy then its going to be in big trouble.

There is a good documentary I stumbled across a month or so ago. It was from the 1970s and explained dog ownership.

Living with a Dog, 1977
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vfyXF9rU8A

In "Living with a Dog" Jack Hargreaves, television presenter, talks about our relationship with dogs, different breeds, working dogs and how to choose and care for a dog. The film was produced in 1977 for Pedigree Petfoods.
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Just get a cat, they don't get jealous, it's just an extra person to give the cat attention, they will happily walk themselves too..
 
It’s 100% the owner that’s the problem. Been a postman for 9 years now and have learned that it’s the owners that cause the problem with dogs. Some dogs can and will bite people but owners can prevent this petty easily if they really wanted to but they are either to stupid or to lazy to do it. The amount of times I’ve had an an idiot open their door trying to hold back a dog while trying to take their post is unbelievable, takes 10 seconds to put the dog in a room then open the door.

Been bitten 3 times in 9 years and all where the owners fault. Was bitten pretty bad on the arm when a lady just opened her door and didn’t even try to stop the dog, then had the cheek to have a go at me when I punched the dog that’s was hanging off my arm. Dog got put down which was a shame as in its eyes it was just protecting its home but it ended up paying the price for its stupid owner.
 
Simple....
Kill all amstaffs, Pitbulls, any other dog that has been created to look like a slab of meat with teeth.
Then kill all the dumb owners that say "oh my Billy is as soft as butter, he wouldn't hurt a fly, it's bad owners that create bad dogs.."
Just stop having selectively bred killing machines as pets, stop being surprised when their natural instincts boil up and they shred your grandma or 8 month old kids.

Get over yourself and get labradors or poodles.
 
BowdonUK said:
If an owner can't physically restrain their dog then they shouldnt be allowed to own it.
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Whilst I definitely don't disagree, I imagine for all the recent child deaths it wouldn't have made any difference whether the owner could physically restrain their dog. The issue was with the lack of intelligence regarding keeping an animal unsupervised within reach of a young child.

Unfortunately you can't teach stupid people.
 
Efour said:
Simple....
Kill all amstaffs, Pitbulls, any other dog that has been created to look like a slab of meat with teeth.
Then kill all the dumb owners that say "oh my Billy is as soft as butter, he wouldn't hurt a fly, it's bad owners that create bad dogs.."
Just stop having selectively bred killing machines as pets, stop being surprised when their natural instincts boil up and they shred your grandma or 8 month old kids.

Get over yourself and get labradors or poodles.
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Erm...our poodle is 40kg of muscle and teeth. I really wouldn't recommend him to anyone who isn't a fit healthy adult. He's very strong and very difficult to control. Albeit he's the biggest from his litter and about 10kg heavier than his great-uncle who we had before him and his grandad before that.
 
The recent deaths are absolutely bad owners. You can't leave kids with dogs
What it the kid does something like pull the tail or anything.
It's just crazy that anyone can even think it's acceptable.

As a soon to be dog owner I do agree a licence would probably discourage some of the scum bags.. If it was enforceable. But it isn't. The people who would observe it are not ones who are the issue.


As for banning needs breeds. I'm actually OK with this. But only going forwards. Breeds only a human construct. And alth I don't really think any breed is particularly more likely (it may be but the notorious breeds usually go to scum bags) those breeds are powerful dogs. Getting bitten by a pom vs a pitbull is very very different.

Out of control dogs are entirely the owners fault. And I would absolutely support EFFECTIVE licensing
 
BowdonUK said:
What do you mean they are domesticated animals?

They literally poo and pee in the house if they aren't trained to go outside.
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Domesticated animals are animals that have been selectively bred and genetically adapted over generations to live alongside humans (or in the case of some dogs entertaining us by fighting much larger more powerful animals like bulls)

I agree that owners are the problem but I would much rather be bitten by a golden retriever that a Pitbull so I am in favour of the banning of a significant number of breeds that were historically bred for fighting/aggression.
 
There's definatelty certain breeds more problematic than others but most of the issues are stupid/lazy owners that won't or don't know how to train a dog. So many people get a dog without research into the breed or what it will entail.

I trust my dog but I've also spent and continue to spend a lot of time on training including spending a lot of time introducing him to children of all ages. My friends dog on the other hand is a very small dog but he doesn't spend time on training and has a dog that snaps at the kids over toys and treats.

Aggressive behaviours are possible in all dogs - these issues need to be corrected at the first sign. Many owners seem to just pull the wool over their eyes and live with badly behaved dogs due to lack of knowledge or laziness because these things take time and effort to resolve.
 
a1ex2001 said:
Domesticated animals are animals that have been selectively bred and genetically adapted over generations to live alongside humans (or in the case of some dogs entertaining us by fighting much larger more powerful animals like bulls)

I agree that owners are the problem but I would much rather be bitten by a golden retriever that a Pitbull so I am in favour of the banning of a significant number of breeds that were historically bred for fighting/aggression.
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I agree. Same here.

I think its unfair that some of these historical genetically bred fighting dogs are put in to environments that act as temptation for their nature.

Some people don't seem willing or capable of having a physical dominating presense. I watch some of these 'bad dog' shows on tv, were a guy will own a dog and when he leaves the house the dog is semi attacking the guys gf/wife. If the dog is attacking your partner/child then its an attack on you.

A classic mistake people make is allowing dogs on furnature, or even worse, their bed. No, its a dog, not a human. Also lying down and letting a dog climb on you, or be above you, is also sending a false message to the dog that he's in top position. Dogs have their own nature rules.

I would be reluctant to leave any dog with a baby alone. I don't care how kind and mellow a dog is. It's not worth the risk.
 
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