Does something need to be done about dogs?

I guess the idea is that they like to grab onto something and not release, so you take advantage of that.

You're not going to win a fight with a pit bull or GSH by punching or kicking them, they'll just shrug it off.

Don't get me wrong, in the heat of the moment it's easier said than done
It presents a barrier to occupy the dog and keeps them away from your head-torso area, while creating the space for you to use your good arm for attacking. It also restricts their angles of attack, and helps keep you from being pulled to the ground.
You're not aiming to win the fight, you're aiming to kill the dog or do enough shock damage that it stops... It might decide you're too much and you scare it off, or it might be dazed long enough for you to escape. You have the added advantage that the dogs you'll encounter are likely not specifically trained to bring down a human, and may just think that your struggles mean you're only playing rough with them.

Is this thread calling for the extermination/banning of dogs or licensing for owners? I can never really tell.
Probably all of it, for both owners and dogs, and in that order.
It's the simplest solution, remember.
 
Instead, lets do what someone else suggested a few pages back, and have Andrew Tate and Drake act as role models for people who want to own tough dogs.... Can't quite remember who mentioned it though........... :cry:

I don't think he's ever fleshed out exactly what he wanted but he did pop up multiple times with a bit of general handwaving re: social engineering or something when banning and licencing could get rid of plenty of these incidents by simply removing most of those types of dogs in the first place.
 
Oh for sure I agree! But if the dogs in a frenzy you'll have no luck running or slapping it like in the video up there somewhere, you'll just sustain more injury.
Just have to hedge your bets really by giving it a sacrificial arm and then poke it's eyes out and chew the end of its nose off.
You won't win in a straight up boxing match gainst a staffie or a pit bull.
No the kicking was slightly humor. But it’s better than standing at a distance with your phone out. My bet would be to mount its back and choke it sleeper hold style. I might get bit but I’d sleep better knowing I tried something rather than nothing.

I’m not a strong swimmer but I’d jump in to save your child and I’d hope someone would do the same for mine.
 
It presents a barrier to occupy the dog and keeps them away from your head-torso area, while creating the space for you to use your good arm for attacking. It also restricts their angles of attack, and helps keep you from being pulled to the ground.
You're not aiming to win the fight, you're aiming to kill the dog or do enough shock damage that it stops... It might decide you're too much and you scare it off, or it might be dazed long enough for you to escape. You have the added advantage that the dogs you'll encounter are likely not specifically trained to bring down a human, and may just think that your struggles mean you're only playing rough with them.


Probably all of it, for both owners and dogs, and in that order.
It's the simplest solution, remember.

It is a breed thing though.
No one ever got mauled to death by a shitszu or a golden retriever that I can recall, but plenty of people do suffer serious injury and death from things like staffies and pit bull type dogs.

We can debate whether it's irresponsible training or irrespenoble breeders and ownership until the cows come home, but the breed of dog certainly plays a large part in this, and also the sort of person who wants to own such a dog.


I mean, if you're a rat or a mouse, a yorkshire terrier is your worst nightmare.
 
Well I think we should ban weight lifting and combat sports because anyone built bigger or know how’s how fight poses a danger to those aren’t or can’t.

I have an affinity for staffies so I will happily defend them and plan to get one next year hopefully if my mate has a successful litter. Luckily I can’t see a ban on the horizon any time soon.
 
26c4e42b-4a61-4fd0-89ae-c0e10168de78.jpg

Hugo on the right and Margot on the left.

My mate owns the pup and his 60+ year old mum owns the Male. His mum and dad have own nothing but staffies and Hugo is the 3rd. Neither are thugs, neither sells drugs none of the dogs have ever mauled or bitten either the owners and their kids or other people. Blanket bans aren’t fair punish the individuals, fine, don’t punish by tenuous association.
 
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26c4e42b-4a61-4fd0-89ae-c0e10168de78.jpg

Hugo on the right and Margot on the left.

My mate owns the pup and his 60+ year old mum owns the Male. His mum and dad have own nothing but staffies and Hugo is the 3rd. Neither are thugs, neither sells drugs none of the dogs have ever mauled or bitten either the owners and their kids or other people. Blanket bans aren’t fair punish the individuals, fine, don’t punish by tenuous association.

I know this is about the tenth time I've said this, but the staffie that attacked the Mrs and our dog was a well trained family pet, and was not owned by some nefarious type. The failure mode was the dog escaped the house and found itself alone outside the front of it's house and saw the first thing that was walking by (The Mrs) as a threat and went nuclear and launched itself at the Mrs, catching her hand and cutting that, when our Dog went to defend her, it latched on to him and dragged him like a rag doll down the side of a house..

The police said the dog was responsibly owned and posed no threat to the family and immediately returned it to them.. the 4 blokes that came out to help when the Mrs was screaming couldn't get it to release for 10 minutes, luckily it had clamped on our dogs leg/paw so the ten minute clamp didn't kill it..

I've provided evidence that shows staffies are problematic, and banned/heavily restricted in other countries (Germany/Switzerland/Spain/Ireland).., and put the obvious argument forward that a dog is great until it goes wrong.. and sadly in the case of a staffie, it's literally designed that when it goes wrong it's insanely formidable and efficient at killing.. And even a well behaved and loving family pet can find itself in a situation that it feels threatened and may 'go wrong'.. but I'd take my chances with a yorkshire terrier.. it may bite and be a yappy little pile of fur, but I could dispatch it very very easily if it got ideas.

This is why I think a ban on the breed such that breeding/buying one after a certain date is illegal works best.. no one wants a current family pet destroyed.
 
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Sorry to hear that but that isn’t indicative of all staffies. For every one issue, hundreds or thousands have had none.

I’m happy that those that know better think differently.

Despite its early function, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier is known as a wonderful family pet.

Characteristics​

Traditionally of indomitable courage and tenacity. Highly intelligent and affectionate especially with children.

Temperament​

Bold, fearless and totally reliable.

 
Temperament "Bold, fearless" doesn't really contradict what @Demon has already highlighted... in fact that's part of the problem, if they do turn and attack then they can be quite bold and fearless and it apparently too 4 guys to stop it in the instance with his missus and their dog.

@Doobedoo that list of breeds is like a horoscope in a way in that they have some nice words to say about every breed on there.
 
It doesn’t it doesn’t mean they a vicious killers either, in the same way some humans are bold and fearless and some others aren’t.

I know what they are capable of, I know what a trained soldier is also capable of, I know what my car is capable of.

If you’ve had a bad experience it will likely colour your judgement which is understandable, but one experience or a couple more is next to meaningless in the grand scheme of non events.

I asked what is the biggest cause of deaths in this country because if you really want to make a difference to human life, you’re probably going to be more successful aiming in different directions. This thread is largely meaningless beyond being just more social media with a vocal minority banging the drum.
 
I don't think he's ever fleshed out exactly what he wanted but he did pop up multiple times with a bit of general handwaving re: social engineering or something when banning and licencing could get rid of plenty of these incidents by simply removing most of those types of dogs in the first place.
Remove how?
What exactly will stop people from breeding the already illegal breeds that they're still breeding right now?
How is it any different to what is already failing?
How would banning ownership and licencing people have stopped your recent guy from East London who was already banned from ownership?

You bitch about magic solutions, but then follow it with your own ill-considered magic proposals, because you can't think of anything better and are either unable or not interested in discussing alternative concepts.

It is a breed thing though.
No one ever got mauled to death by a shitszu or a golden retriever that I can recall, but plenty of people do suffer serious injury and death from things like staffies and pit bull type dogs.
The breeds are already known for being fairly receptive and responsive to their environment, be they good or bad, and dogs like these being chosen from a litter for being especially responsive - The very qualities that make them ideal for training as very well behaved dogs also make them ideal for training as fighting dogs, and neglect or abuse results in very badly behaved dogs.
But this is typical of many working breeds, and it's just the physical size of the dog that results in KSI.

You also have a short memory, as I did already give you the stats on Golden Retrievers, namely 3 kills and 7 maimings in 30 years.
 
"in the case of a staffie, it's literally designed that when it goes wrong it's insanely formidable and efficient at killing."

Well, exactly. You don't get Red Setters or Frenchies eating children.

"Golden Retrievers, namely 3 kills and 7 maimings in 30 years."

You seem to have access to all the stats... How many chav status dogs have killed or maimed people in the last 30 years?

I'm not a gambling man, but I'd happily wager it's a lot more than three, lol.
 
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It doesn’t it doesn’t mean they a vicious killers either, in the same way some humans are bold and fearless and some others aren’t.

I know what they are capable of, I know what a trained soldier is also capable of, I know what my car is capable of.

If you’ve had a bad experience it will likely colour your judgement which is understandable, but one experience or a couple more is next to meaningless in the grand scheme of non events.

I asked what is the biggest cause of deaths in this country because if you really want to make a difference to human life, you’re probably going to be more successful aiming in different directions. This thread is largely meaningless beyond being just more social media with a vocal minority banging the drum.
"in the case of a staffie, it's literally designed that when it goes wrong it's insanely formidable and efficient at killing."

Well, exactly. You don't get Red Setters or Frenchies eating children.

"Golden Retrievers, namely 3 kills and 7 maimings in 30 years."

You seem to have access to all the stats... How many chav status dogs have killed or maimed people in the last 30 years?

I'm not a gambling man, but I'd happily wager it's a lot more than three, lol.

There have been studies and to quote previous contributions:
http://randd.defra.gov.uk/Default.aspx?Module=More&Location=None&ProjectID=19861

Just FYI, from the report above, all mentions of Stafffies:
Media and Prosecutions Analysis:
"Breeds identified in media reporting on incidents are as follows: Staffordshire bull terrier/mix (10)" - Number 1 in the list
"All dog-on-dog deaths involved a single large dog or pair of large dogs (4 German Shepherds/Alsatians, 1 Staffordshire bull terrier, 1 Rottweiler)"
"Of the 31 articles detailing human attacks, 13 articles described non-fatal attacks... Staffordshire bull terrier (1)"
"Dogs implicated in fatal (Human) attacks include Staffordshire bull terrier (3)" - number 1 in the list

Veterinary and Behavioural Perspectives - Data from a study by the Utrecht Department of Veterinay Medicine
"A variety of breeds are represented in the dogs assessed by the Utrecht team including German shepherds, pit bulls, Staffordshire bull terriers and others"

Appendix III - Country Comparison of Dog Attack Legislative Policy and Enforcement Response
"There is currently limited legislation concerning potentially dangerous dogs in Belgium, but, following a number of attacks, there have been moves to outlaw some fighting breeds and guard dogs such as the (American) Staffordshire Terrier"
"Germany’s restrictions on keeping dogs classed as dangerous are determined by each state/municipality although most states have concluded that Pit Bulls, Staffordshire Bull Terriers and American Staffordshire Terriers are dangerous and have banned their import"
"Wijk et al. (2019) identify that the Netherlands uses a list of 22 dog breeds, mainly based on physical appearance, bite style, biting intensity and genetic traits. The list includes the (American) Staffordshire Bull Terrier" - A list of potentially dangerous dogs
Spain "A person owning a dangerous dog must have a licence for the dog.38 The following specific breeds (and their cross breeds) are classed as ‘dangerous’: Pit Bull Terrier; Staffordshire Bull Terrier;"

To be clear, of course a spaniel can (and has) killed children.. as have other breeds.. but Germany, Switzerland, Spain and Ireland all either ban outright or heavily restrict various terriers whilst allowing other breeds..
 
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I know this is about the tenth time I've said this, but the staffie that attacked the Mrs and our dog was a well trained family pet, and was not owned by some nefarious type. The failure mode was the dog escaped the house and found itself alone outside the front of it's house and saw the first thing that was walking by (The Mrs) as a threat and went nuclear and launched itself at the Mrs, catching her hand and cutting that, when our Dog went to defend her, it latched on to him and dragged him like a rag doll down the side of a house..

The police said the dog was responsibly owned and posed no threat to the family and immediately returned it to them.. the 4 blokes that came out to help when the Mrs was screaming couldn't get it to release for 10 minutes, luckily it had clamped on our dogs leg/paw so the ten minute clamp didn't kill it..

I've provided evidence that shows staffies are problematic, and banned/heavily restricted in other countries (Germany/Switzerland/Spain/Ireland).., and put the obvious argument forward that a dog is great until it goes wrong.. and sadly in the case of a staffie, it's literally designed that when it goes wrong it's insanely formidable and efficient at killing.. And even a well behaved and loving family pet can find itself in a situation that it feels threatened and may 'go wrong'.. but I'd take my chances with a yorkshire terrier.. it may bite and be a yappy little pile of fur, but I could dispatch it very very easily if it got ideas.

This is why I think a ban on the breed such that breeding/buying one after a certain date is illegal works best.. no one wants a current family pet destroyed.

I have genuine empathy for the situation your wife and your dog found themselves in, but it's precisely because of that (understandably) that you're always going to have a negative opinion of Staffies. My dog and I were attacked by what looked like a German Shepard / Husky Cross afew years ago and I had to pick my dog up and kick that dog until it's owner finally got a hold of it, fortunately it was so focussed on my dog that it didn't bite me, but it scratched the hell out of my legs and side. I then had trouble with the bell walking the dog because of course, I shouldn't have touched his dog. It wasn't much fun, my dog is a Jack Russell Cross so his reaction to being attacked didn't really help!

I don't blame the breed for this, I blame the waste of oxygen that was walking it. My complaints ended up with the dog being muzzled, so something good came of it.

Granted, the Staffie you mention escaped and then did what it did, but that to me suggests the dog wasn't as well trained as they said it was, and if it's reaction to being on it's own is to turn aggressive, it wasn't suitably kept to ensure it wouldn't get out. What I find strange is that your wife was bitten by a perceived problem breed, but the police didn't follow up on that? How long ago was this?

I do understand where you are coming from but... (and not knowing what breed your dog is, if it's tiny this doesn't really count), what if your dog escaped the front, panicked, and latched on to a child walking past? Should all dogs of your breed then be banned because they might attack a child?
I see it as an accident that has come about due to negligence.

It sucks that people get hurt by animals, vehicles, hobbies (insert thing to get hurt by here). But if you start protecting everyone from everything, where does it stop? The family who owned that Staff should have had consequences for allowing their dog to escape, if my dog got out and attacked someone I'd certainly expect to be held accountable because it's my negligence that allowed the dog to escape.

I do believe in licensing strong breeds that become status dogs though, they attract totally the wrong sort of people into owning them.

Sorry if that's a bit rambly.
 
I think one thing I learnt from this thread, is we basically have the same problem as America, but with dogs instead of guns, its the same defensive argument used for both, its the owner of said thing thats the problem so as such no legal intervention.
 
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"in the case of a staffie, it's literally designed that when it goes wrong it's insanely formidable and efficient at killing."

Well, exactly. You don't get Red Setters or Frenchies eating children.

"Golden Retrievers, namely 3 kills and 7 maimings in 30 years."

You seem to have access to all the stats... How many chav status dogs have killed or maimed people in the last 30 years?

I'm not a gambling man, but I'd happily wager it's a lot more than three, lol.

I won't argue stats but a lot more morons own dogs like Staffs than Red Setters or Frenchies.
 
Remove how?
What exactly will stop people from breeding the already illegal breeds that they're still breeding right now?
How is it any different to what is already failing?
How would banning ownership and licencing people have stopped your recent guy from East London who was already banned from ownership?

We don't currently have licensing in place for owners and breeders, we don't currently make other bull terrier types illegal such as XL Bullies.

If you do that then you can get rid of many of those breeders, if any police officer can check/ask for a dog licence then it's going to be a bit difficult to go out in public with an illegal dog as you risk it being confiscated and how can you register it if it's illegal and from an unlicenced breeder.

It's like asking how can you enforce driving licences, insurance and MOT requirements and other regulations for cars... well if your car is illegal you're going to have trouble getting insurance. If you're driving around in an uninsured, unregistered car with not MOT and no driving licence then you'll likely get it confiscated as soon as it catches the attention of the police.
 
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"in the case of a staffie, it's literally designed that when it goes wrong it's insanely formidable and efficient at killing."

Well, exactly. You don't get Red Setters or Frenchies eating children.

"Golden Retrievers, namely 3 kills and 7 maimings in 30 years."

You seem to have access to all the stats... How many chav status dogs have killed or maimed people in the last 30 years?

I'm not a gambling man, but I'd happily wager it's a lot more than three, lol.

Kills in the last 30 years - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom

Maiming and serious injury stats are even less detailed, but generally it's an even spread across those most likely to bite that are above a certain size.
Labradors are often cited as the top dog for non-fatal attacks.

I think one thing I learnt from this thread, is we basically have the same problem as America, but with dogs instead of guns, its the same defensive argument used for both, its the owner of said thing thats the problem so as such no legal intervention.
Unlike America, the answer to problem dogs and status dogs is not MORE status dogs.
Similar to America, the problem is keeping irresponsible (and mostly mentally ill) people from having easy access to something that can be made dangerous, without impacting those who are perfectly responsible and do not deserve the same punishment.
 
How many deaths are caused by drunk drivers? It’s illegal and has been for a longtime, you can and will go to prison for it.

Yet…. People still do it and people are still killed by drunk drivers. Literally any person can drink drive not just the scrotes. More people are killed by either smoking or alcohol in this country than all the dogs death in the last 100 years (I made that up but it’s probably true). Ban smoking and Alcohol completely because it is far more dangerous and costly and that has been proven by any and every study.

Unfortunately my mind won’t be changing on this, possibly ever. I don’t pay attention to the daily Mail headlines and I don’t really click on the links in this thread. The same people will continue to argue ad infinitum and I will continue to have a love and defend Staffies.
 

I think this derseves a repost...

3 deaths by golden retrievers in the last 30 years.. Yet these dogs that are litteraly bread for fighting are different... So different that they attack and kill people on a regular basis.

How many killings by stafies and pit bull types? Probably in the magnetude of 300% more, or more than that.
 
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